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LaRouche continued 6 - Page 88
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  1. #1741
    Hylozoic Hedgehog Guest

    Default

    Trying to say anything vaguely nice about David Goldman is like trying to think up something nice to say about Eddie Haskell.

    BUT the fact remains that Goldman was long rumored to be "Spengler" well before he joined First Things. I think there is a discussion of just this fact on Skull and Bones. I got an e-mail from a friend who liked some of Goldman's stuff asking me about him some time ago and whether or not he was an ex-LaRouchie. So unless First Things is utterly obtuse, they might have well known about Goldman's background just by looking at the Web. And so we don't know if he fooled them. It's not at all impossible that they knew.

    But the fact that the discussion on Goldman's past was already out there means that he really screwed up by being so coy instead of getting ahead of the problem. Ironically, our supreme name-dropper (OK, penultimate supreme name dropper as LaRouche owns that title for life) reminds me of his bud Cardinal Ratzinger who also totally screwed up his own PR campaign when he thought he could sneak the Holocaust-denying nuts in SSPX back into the Church without anyone noticing. Alas for Pope Benedict XVI, the doctrine of Papal Infallibility does not seem to extend to an awareness of what's on You Tube.

    So just from a self-interested PR standpoint, Goldman blew it. He should have gotten ahead of the problem in the first place. But I still don't see how his past history is reflected in his current world views.

    And a lot of people fudge data for the boss. Every article in New Solidarity that I ever wrote (and there were mercifully few of them, thank Mani!) tried to somehow make the story "relevant" to the current LC line. In fact, I remember thinking at the time that what you had to do was have a strong first paragraph echoing the party line and why anyone would want to read the story so you could justify your existence to Editorial and the rest of the article was my attempt to present my version of reality in an honest way. Then the final trick was with the close paragraph where you then had to somehow relate everything just stated to the initial opening paragraph fantasy.

    I usually went with something about how the titanic fight now being waged against Rockefeller by the good guys was now approaching a critical stage and that there were rays of sunlight on the horizon if we could just overcome the looming storm clouds, etc. So the first and last paragraphs were the party line and everything in-between was more or less an honest reflection my own independent delusions.

    Maybe Goldman compensated in a different way by being cynical. I don't know. But in some ways cynicism was also a kind of trap because you could rationalize your staying in even longer by having a somewhat jaded view. Or cynicism could have been the seeds of a return to reality-based thinking. Again everyone took a different path to get out based on their own past.
    Last edited by Hylozoic Hedgehog; 05-09-2009 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #1742

    Default

    There were briefing slugs about David Goldman and his involvement in Asia Times already around 2000 or perhaps in the 90s! The organization knew!

    /T


    Quote Originally Posted by Hylozoic Hedgehog View Post
    But the fact that the discussion on Goldman's past was already out there means that he really screwed up by being so coy instead of getting ahead of the problem.

  3. #1743
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    Default "Carpet" Bombs

    Bad Augury for LaRouchean Legal Strategy

    A few weeks ago I reported that Jeff and Paul's main "intelligence source" for 25 years, Farzad Darui (Carpet) was trying to avoid a retrial on Federal charges of embezzlement by claiming prosecutorial misconduct and perjury by a key witness. [Darui, who was paid hundreds and hundreds of thousands (that is, millions) in cash by the org over the last 25 years, is charged with having embezzled hundreds of thousands from the Islamic Center mosque in D.C., for which he served as "security" and money man. His first trial ended in a hung jury.]

    Sound familiar? Farzad's legal approach is the same (carpet) tack Lyn is now using, 21 years after his Federal trial, to exculpate himself and blame it all on Molly Kronberg's perfidious testimony.

    I had speculated about Farzad and Jeff and Paul sitting around at Tuskie's Restaurant in Leesburg hammering out their legal strategy--and Lyn's.

    Bad news for Farzad today, however. The Washington Times and Washington Post report that the judge told Farzad's legal team to take a hike. The case won't be dropped, and Farzad will face re-trial.

    The two articles follow, in italics. Where there is bold emphasis, in the Washington Post article, the emphasis is mine.

    http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009...zzlement-case/

    Mosque embezzlement case proceeds
    By Ben Conery
    Friday, May 8, 2009

    A federal judge has refused a defense team's bid to throw out an embezzlement case involving one of the nation's most influential mosques, ruling that the defense fell well short of proving prosecutorial misconduct.

    "It is clear the defendant is attempting to claim of government misconduct, but the convoluted nature of the motion leaves the court unable to make out any specific claims," Judge Royce C. Lamberth wrote in a 21-page opinion released Thursday. "This is not to affirmatively state that there was no evidentiary misconduct by the government, but rather that if there was, defendant's motion does not clearly identify it."

    Defense attorneys for Farzad Darui, a former top official at the Islamic Center of Washington D.C., had asked the judge to dismiss the case, accusing prosecutors of withholding evidence and of allowing its star witness to commit perjury and obstruct justice.

    Prosecutors say Mr. Darui stole more than $435,000 from the Saudi-financed mosque while he was business manager there. The first trial ended in a mistrial in 2008 when a jury could not reach a verdict. No date has been set for a retrial, but the government has committed itself to pursuing the case.

    The key witness against Mr. Darui is the center's director, Abdullah M. Khouj. Defense attorneys argued that Mr. Khouj committed perjury and prosecutors knew it, an accusation they denied and that Judge Lamberth ruled was not proven.

    Mr. Darui's lawyer, Victoria Toensing, said much of the missing money was used by Mr. Khouj to support his mistress Debbi Estrada. Mr. Khouj denied having a relationship with Miss Estrada or even knowing where she was.

    The defense said it later learned that the Islamic Center had paid $500 a month for Miss Estrada to live in an apartment in Arlington. Prosecutors said that arrangement didn't begin until after the trial, but the defense argued Mr. Khouj's actions amounted to obstruction of justice. The judge disagreed.

    "Defendant offers no legal support that dismissal, or preclusion of future testimony, is the proper remedy absent government knowledge of Khouj's perjury," Judge Lamberth wrote. "The defendant's spotty allegations do not provide grounds for such extraordinary action by the court."


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050702581.html

    Judge Upholds Case Against Ex-Manager of Islamic Center

    By Del Quentin Wilber
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Thursday, May 7, 2009; 2:43 PM

    A federal judge today refused to throw out charges that the former business manager of the Islamic Center of Washington embezzled $430,000 from the mosque during a six-year period.


    Judge Upholds Case Against Ex-Manager of Islamic Center
    Alleged Money Scam Roils Islamic Center

    Defense attorneys for Farzad Darui, the former manager, had asked Chief U.S. District Judge Royce C. Lamberth to toss the case or block testimony by a key witness. They alleged that the witness, the center's director and religious leader, lied to investigators and on the witness stand during Darui's trial last year.

    The trial ended in a hung jury, and prosecutors are seeking to retry him on mail fraud, money laundering and theft charges.

    Darui alleged that he had been authorized by the center's director, Abdullah Khouj, to pay off debts of two women and to pay informants for tips about the mosque's security. But Khouj testified that Darui had stolen the money without his knowledge.

    Lamberth ruled that defense lawyers failed to prove the government had engaged in misconduct by allowing Khouj to lie on the witness stand.

    Darui's "spotty allegations do not provide grounds for such an extraordinary action," Lamberth wrote.

    Noting that prosecutors' conduct "has at times not been exemplary," the judge added that their conduct "has not, in the court's opinion, sunk" to the point where the case should be tossed. Lamberth also refused to block Khouj from testifying during a retrial.


    I especially like the part about paying for security tips, since Jeff and Paul paid such staggering quantities to Farzad and others like him (Danny Murdoch, etc.) for precisely such "security tips"--the nonsense that Lyn and Jeff and Paul used to keep the org on a permanent emergency mobilization, and to justify Lyn's hermit-like existence (oh, and Helga's, too) on estates complete with swimming pools, horse riding rings, herds of cattle, and other amenities.

    These payments were being made while lenders to the org couldn't get any meaningful money back on loans that were determined by the Feds to amount to about $34 million.

    That's the real story of the Alexandria trial.

  4. #1744

    Default

    Now, here is a Swedish lesson for you... Here is my third, and last blog, the Swedish blog about EAP and LaRoucherörelsen!

    http://eap-larouche.blogspot.com/

  5. #1745
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    Default Goldman and Vicous Monsters

    I had lunch with David Goldman at a Leesburg cafe in July 1985.

    We discussed a wide range of issues but MY interest centered on C=256 and the equal temperament versus well-temperament dispute (confusion) that he was helping to promulgate inside and outside the ICLC.

    Apparently, Jonathan Tennenbaum's logarithmic spiral cone (a beautiful discovery, without question) was being used to help prop up the LIE that J.S. Bach's Well Tempered Clavier was written for equal temperament.

    For people unfamiliar with the technical issues, roughly speaking the intellectual content of "temperament" simply involves the question of how to tune the 12 notes in an octave; there are many ways, many methods, and both the theoretical and practical issues are non-trivial, even for experts. Moreover, the subject is fascinating beyond measure as it brings together seemingly disparate ideas from mathematics, physics, music theory, and physiology.

    I now quote Goldman:

    "The people behind well-temperament were the most evil people of the past 300 years".

    Of course is all depends on what meaning you ascribe to "behind" although it turns out that in this case Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr., Jonathan Tennenbaum, and David Goldman were all speaking and writing out of their asses and they were well behind the learning curve required for understanding the most rudimentary elements of tuning stringed keyboard instruments.

    This historical "note" is sponsored by The Acoustical Revival.

    Peter Tennenbaum May 9, 2009

  6. #1746
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by larouchetruth View Post
    I just read BorisMaglev’s post that precedes this, and I think he’s spot on. This mendacious, absurd piece of garbage that purports to pass for “a little more autobiography” is 100% self-serving by creating a lie about his LC years to try to do damage control for the belated discovery by First Things of his LaRouchie past. Hm. This reminds me of Lyn’s own successive rewrites of his own biography to suit the changing needs of the moment. This is Goldman’s best attempt, wherein he reveals the deep dark secret that while a member of this organization, he twice failed to speak up when anti-Semitic things were uttered, and that he bought into a theory of hidden elites ruling the world, which he held on to for a few years until he met some people in the real world who quickly allowed him to see the error of his ways. Well, one thing you have to say, in keeping with his new Jewish identity, to write such amazing bilge certainly took chutzpah!

    Let me first say that I do not know Dave G personally like many of the posters here. I will say that one of the most common views of him from people whom I know is that they viewed him as a very pompous LCer and have VERY strong memories of him. Over the years I have received quite a few emails from readers of his Spengler column who have correctly guessed that Spengler was DG and he was in the LC for some time. What is interesting is that most of what DG worried about over his role in the LC was never an issue with these readers . What raised the ire of some of the Spengler readers was his pompousness in advocating certain positions which people then noticed was similar to Larouche style in absurdity and confidence.

    The number one set of columns which he wrote which blew the roof off of his relationship to the LC and Larouche was what I think Chator and Eiropean mentioned, his views on Islam a wholesale killing of Muslims. Those column made quite a few people challenge him. It was during this time period that many Spengler readers found factnet.org and saw his name mentioned here.

    There is something which I do find strange and overlooked at first since I was really busy with work this past week. My error was not noticing that the Asia Times column in April COMPLETELY erases his prior LC life compared to the First thing column in May.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/KD18Aa01.html

    http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=1409

    For a a day or so I thought that the First Times column was the same as the Asia Times column.

    LaroucheTruth, yes, these columns are 100% self serving as they should be. I would think that he is writing for his audience, his close friends , close co workers and himself and not for ex members. Call me crazy, but I fully understand why he would do this.

    First off, he has way too many people who know of his past with the LC and with the web , they will quickly find him at First Times. This reminds me of NY State Governor Patterson who in the first day on the job admitted that he had a few affairs while married. As my brilliant exit counselor once mentioned to me over 20 years ago "You admit the ones you can't hide but let the rest be forgotten as people lose count. Your wife is only one vote in the election" Of course he said that to me way before the internet. Shaving 10 years off of his LC involvement is something only those of us here know about. I can not say in this age of the web what his detractors will write as they come back here for an "update" on DG.

    Second, when you get this out of the way early, the very act of confession eliminates the LC and Larouche from the future adn makes you out to be the victim. See the posts at First Times for yourself.

    http://www.firstthings.com/spengler/?p=101#comments

    or at Asia Times.

    http://spengler.atimes.net/viewtopic.php?t=13384

    Third, in my opnion, he had to have some big dilemma with several of his friends or possibly co worshippers or directors at the religious institutions he attends or frequents. Years ago I found DG mentioned on the web page of a Park Avenue Temple he was a member of and other palces where he performed recitals. How do explain to others that you co wrote a book which had the Protocols of The Elders of Zion in it? How do explain that the News Paper you wrote for had centerfold articles about Holocaust numerology by Larouche and you did not resign in protest or raise a significant outrage during your Leadership, not membership in the LC? DG does very blatantly forget the "Jew Jokes" he must have heard about or directly heard and you do not have to be a Jew to understand their meaning.

    The easiest way for him to get around this is just the way he did and in HIS mind, it lets him sleep at night.

    How would anyone here explain why a bright Jew in NYC would be a founder and national leader of the SDSLC and choose to be very close to a madman who a NY court ruled was a "Small Time Hitler" /

    The one thing I have learned here is that Dave Goldman is viewed by many, many people as Mr. Pompous in the LC. He most certainly left his mark with many here. Since this is an open forum, anything is fair game and I honestly thought that he left the LC much earlier than 1988 for some reason. There are a lot of stories about him viewing himself as "special" in being so close to Lyn for all of those years. Dave Goldman was part of the early 1971 "European Summer" and was the London LC for a while. That part of the early LC along with the origin of his writing name 'Peter Brand" would be part of LC history to explore.

    Keep in mind that who knows what may have happened between Lyn and Dave G in the early days with the abuses with BP sessions.

    I can see several years of reasons why I would not be mentioning that at all

    As to his present life. I have an ethic that if you leave the LC , I wish you nothing but prosperity. However, I also hope that you really do leave the LC and Lyn which is why Webster is always interesting to follow. Muriel left a few years ago. She has to get a job and a life after spending damn near her entire adult life in the LC. Should she wave her LC history like a flag to find a job to feed herself? I don't think so. Should she or others start writing some lunacy which is immediately recognised as direct larouche crazy talk, then we have a case for pointing that out.

    Dave Goldman mentioned in his Spengler column that his column attracted over a MILLION readers a month!

    Think about that for a mimute. Spengler has over one million readers a month while the LPAC web site gets a few THOUSAND views for Lyn's crusty webcasts.

    Yeah he lied and stretched the truth, but any actress in Hollywood has to stretch the truth and the skin to be employed as well while shaving off excess hair and years.

    BorisMaglev, David Goldman stretching the truth or erasing anyhting about this "ULTRAGLOW" problem is a whole other story here. I do not have single memory about that which may explain why for the most part, David Goldman vanished in my memory from around 1986 or so. I am very familiar with the Boston members being flown out, but David Goldman leaving the country for this gives me a complete blank. It would make sense that the COVER for leaving the USA at the time would be him doing "Musical Research".

    You can hear Dave Goldman and see a recent pix here.

    http://vimeo.com/4310323

    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
    Last edited by xlcr4life; 05-09-2009 at 06:38 PM.

  7. #1747
    Hylozoic Hedgehog Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by European View Post
    There were briefing slugs about David Goldman and his involvement in Asia Times already around 2000 or perhaps in the 90s! The organization knew!

    /T
    I wouldn't put it past Security to leak the news of his past a few years ago when "Spengler" became popular in order to discredit his present views.

    I have no idea if they did it but the thought did cross my mind.

  8. #1748
    Hylozoic Hedgehog Guest

    Default The Decline and Fall of "Spengler" -- An example for others?

    Quote Originally Posted by xlcr4life View Post
    Let me first say that I do not know Dave G personally like many of the posters here. I will say that one of the most common views of him from people whom I know is that they viewed him as a very pompous LCer and have VERY strong memories of him.
    The irony of it all is that same know-it-all quality we all knew clearly made Goldman popular as "Spengler" because that "take no prisoners" persona worked for him in print. Far more than he ever could have imagined.

    I hold the view that the basic "statute of limitations" expires after people leave and that their past is only relevant to the present if their ideas and actions still mimic LaRouche. This is not so much a personal put-down of them but simply a way of understanding just why in print The Web still believes that he and his unmaed "colleagues" stopped World War III by exposing HILEX-75, etc.

    But when ti comes to "fuzzy" activities involving things illegal that's a bit different. Obviously I don't know about the money dealings of the LC but I don't think I am unique in wondering about people like Paulie G or The Herb who think they have have gotten away with murder (figuratively speaking of course -- but what did happen in places like Guatemala?) and seem to have no moral inclination to make things right.

    They should know that when the horrible Mr. LaRouche goes to his just reward (and in this one instance I am a deeply religious believer), a lot more will come out. People like Paulie and The Herb might want to use the sad saga of the decline and fall of "Spengler" as a cautionary lesson and do something right for someone other than themselves as well as get ahead of the PR curve.
    Last edited by Hylozoic Hedgehog; 05-09-2009 at 07:38 PM.

  9. #1749
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Hylozoic Hedgehog View Post
    It should also be noted that the Gnostics have been used by the "Left" as well to advance "progressive" agendas, most ludicrously in Pagels' books that try to give the Gnostics a "feminist" spin since there is a Gnostic gospel of Mary Magdalene. I find Pagels' PC re-write on the Gnostics as proto-feminists basically stupid although reading her made be understand better the triumph of the "Nicene Fathers" although I think their real triumph had more to do with Constantine the Great than anything else.
    This stuff about the Gnostics and then the whole Knights Templar Movement is the kind of fascinating web spinning that made the DaVinci Code so popular and such a bane to the Church. I remember reading a take on this from the book the Holy Blood Holy Grail during my tenure in the org. in the 70s or early 80s and thinking that perhaps there was a whole conspiracy about the rise of current Christianity that somewhat fit into the Feuerbachian interpretation as passed through Marx and LaRouche. And it also fit into the whole Secrets Known Only to the Inner Elites when you looked at the way these stories played up the Knights Templar and their supposed ages long battle with the Knights of St. John.

  10. #1750
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hylozoic Hedgehog View Post
    I hold the view that the basic "statute of limitations" expires after people leave and that their past is only relevant to the present if their ideas and actions still mimic LaRouche. This is not so much a personal put-down of them but simply a way of understanding just why in print The Web still believes that he and his unmaed "colleagues" stopped World War III by exposing HILEX-75, etc.
    HH, statue of limitations is exactly what I was looking for. I don't think that there should be a statue of limitations for this "UltraGlow" question which BorisMaglev raised. If anything, I would hope that David Goldman would somehow release an avalanche of info about Lyn and the nefarious dealings of the LC to assist in figuring out what was going on.

    My thinking is that this will show once again that anyone and everyone who gets involved with Lyn and the LC will ALWAYS be screwed money wise while Lyn pops a Rheingau calls finance to make out the check or find tha cash to pay off the scam artists who feed him his delusions. Lyn reminds me of many business "owners" with access to cash who will screw everyone to feed their gambling or drug habit as the highs of being so world historical do come for a price.

    That web mythology of Lyn and preventing nuclear war sorta looks like this HH.

    http://www.libertytree-blog.com/tril...or-nuclear-war

    Howie at Skull and bones has another fine post with interesting links which are always worth reading.

    http://www.struat.com/election/categ...che-challenge/

    BorisBad The book "Holy Blood Holy Grail" was a well read book by security and some office people in MYC at the time in the early 1980s. As we mentioned here many a time , plot what Lyn yaps about and compare that to what was big in the culture at the time. Lyn isn't gonna let some multi million selling book out do him in the conspiracy dept. Lyn will also not let anything with this newfangled web interfere with his LYMsters.

    Lyn's recent outbursts against Twitter both here and in the recent "Leadership" memo

    http://larouchepac.com/node/10023

    are hilarious to read while poor Matthew Ogden is relegated to writing this for posterity and people to goof on after he leaves this nuthouse.

    As Lyndon LaRouche commented, this movement is a Dionysian cult formation. Twitter, the latest high-tech instant communications system, for activating large numbers of people in real-time, via phone and computer links, has been adopted by British intelligence agent Soros and his Jacobin minions, to create maximum social chaos—among what is largely a youth cult, driven to despair and rage by the global financial and economic collapse. Those deployed by Twitter in this fashion are, as LaRouche warned, a Nietzschean fascist, existentialist movement, that can be mobilized, like Hitler's youth, on behalf of top-down oligarchic interests, to which they are totally oblivious.

    Here is the kicker. After Lyn denounces twitter users as self flagellaters (sp?) LPAC does twitter!

    http://twitter.com/larouchepac

    Matthew, WTF are you waiting for, you know who to call?

    xlcr4life@hotmail.com


    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
    Last edited by xlcr4life; 05-09-2009 at 10:11 PM.

  11. #1751
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    Talking Twitter tool of the Dionysian cultists

    If LaRouche had one ounce of sense he would keep his mouth shut about things he really knows nothing about, other than to pose his silly connecto-games that Facebook is owned by Gates and Myspace is run by Murdoch or Soros (take your pick). Actually police forces seem to be very attunded to using things like twitter and facebook to alert communities and children and teens in particular about the dangers of online predators and to even using it to conduct amber alerts and the like, as can be seen in the link to the article below from CNN.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/03/13/p...ing/index.html



    Or the following link showing how clever police officers in NJ tracked down a car thief using twitter. In fact this occurred in Hackensack, NJ maybe not far from the LYM office.



    http://www.physorg.com/news160906949.html

  12. #1752
    Hylozoic Hedgehog Guest

    Default The rev bev goes "down under"

    In trying to close out the Don Veitch series,I recently looked at some back issues of Searchlight, the Brit anti-fa monthly magazine and still the best source in the English language on the far right even if I still don’t believe that the clown Nick Griffin really is endangering Merrie Olde England.

    (Searchlight also seems to have taken a latitudinarian view of Muslim anti-Semites and their enablers in Trotskyist organizations like the current SWP abomination that organized anti-Blair protests against the Iraq War with nuts from the Muslim Brotherhood. Please tell me Boris that these wankers are off Red Ken’s former dole . . . )

    Still even with some blindness in Searchlight’s left light, I recalled that it was the only publication that seriously covered LaRouche in Australia, in part because Robert Pash helped enable some Brit NF types – including Nick Griffin – to visit Libya in 1988. I looked at back issues of Searchlight from 1989 to 1985 and in all 72 issues, LaRouche was maybe mentioned five or six times at most.

    However, the major references were all about Australia and Searchlight devoted two full stories to LaRouche Down Under in October 1991 and August 1994.

    It is to the August 1994 Searchlight story (“LaRouchites pour money down Australian drain”) that deserves to be immortalized here in part because it covers the travel travails of one Reverend James Bevel and in part because old issues of Searchlight are hard to find outside of a few academic libraries. It is also very funny especially when it comes to Bevel and Al Douglas.

    (I should also point out that National Action was an Aussie neo-Nazi grouping -- yes, Australia has them as well. Another note: The Bevel Goes Bust tour seems to have taken place sometime in the early summer of 1994 which would have been shortly after the “Mad Monday” purge of Seale. Recall also that one of the big complaints of both Veitch and Seale was that the CEC was madly wasting its utterly unaccounted for money in idiotic ways.)

    Some excerpts from Searchlight's tale of Rev Bev's not so gay time spent Down Under:

    “The latest edition of The New Citizen [the CEC journal – HH] reports, typically, that both National Action’s demonstration and the counter-demonstration were organized by the perfidious Zionists. These Zionists (the CEC’s cozy codeword for Jews) are so powerful that they control everything, even anti-Semites. Of course, if this is true then it means the Zionists also control the Citizens’ Electoral Councils. Hopelessly confused? Not as much as they are.

    “The CEC’s have kicked up a fuss over the continual linking of their organization with Nazi groups like National Action (possibly because they [the CECs – HH] came out of the anti-Semitic League of Rights and used to run advertisements for National Action in their paper), so they brought out the Reverend James Bevel, a black preacher and former civil rights activist, from the States to prove they’re not racist.”

    The article then reports that Bevel had been a close associate of MLK but drifted first into the Chicago Republican Party and then flirted with the Reverend Moon before hooking up with LaRouche. The article continues:

    “Even other conspiracy theorists don’t think too highly of the good reverend. When Kenn Thomas, author of the conspiracy fanzine Steamshovel Press heard Bevel’s ‘graphically anti-gay’ speech at the Midwestern Symposium on Assassination Politics (!), he was unimpressed. ‘Bevel certainly didn’t seem to have anything to say that had anything to do with what I imagine Martin Luther King stood for' (Incite Information, July-August 1993).

    “The CEC paid out more than $25,000 for Bevel’s Australian visit. Bevel was scheduled to speak on the Labor government’s proposed racist vilification legislation – opposing it naturally – in three Australian centers: the country town of Bundaberg in Queensland, where the CEC claim something of a base; Melbourne, where the CEC are headquartered, and Murray Bridge in South Australia, a faintly obscure country town in the middle of nowhere, the geographical equivalent, one supposes of the CEC’s politics.

    “They probably hoped that they could just hawk the Rev Bev around these places, getting him unlimited media coverage on the back of his civil rights’ work 30 years ago. It was not to be. Most media organizations were well aware of the CEC’s reputation and history and had no intention of being fooled.

    “He did get a run on the ABC Radio National program, but was so rambling that no one could understand what he was saying.

    “They telephoned – from Melbourne – nearly everyone in Bundaberg to get them to come along to the meeting. (Melbourne and Bundaberg are 2,282 kilometers apart and long-distance phone calls don’t come cheap in Australia.) They placed editorial in the local papers. They stuck leaflets under car windscreens in the main street. The hall seated 100. Ten people turned up. Two were security men for the Reverend. One was his daughter [No surprise there, eh Rev? – HH]. One was a journalist. One was the Reverend. That leaves five. Not good for an organization that claims to mail out 5,000 copies of its paper to the Bundaberg area alone.

    “They then spent a considerable amount of money flying the Rev Bev down from Bundaberg, with an entourage of eight delivered to the plane – fashionably late – by a limo. Most of them were carrying mobile phones and walkie-talkies. They like that sort of thing, the LaRouchites, and it makes them feel important. The Rev Bev might have had a nicer flight had he not got into an argument with one of the entourage about homosexuality.

    “Down in Melbourne, the CEC paid $4,270 to The Age newspaper for a quarter-page advertisement. The Age is owned by Conrad Black of Hollinger Corp (publisher of the Daily Telegraph), which the LaRouchites claim is a drug laundering front for British intelligence. It has to be said that handing over $4,270 is a funny way of showing your contempt for Dope Inc. and MI5.

    “They spent around $500 renting Melbourne’s Clunies Ross Center. Their handsomely paid security adviser was placed at the door with a metal detector in case any of the audience was packing a shooter. As one observer at the meeting pointed out, however, ‘after listening to Al Douglas [the LaRouche warm-up speaker] for 15 minutes, the only person you’d want to shoot would be yourself.’

    “Heaven only knows how much their printing bill for the New Citizen is, but they must have a substantial print run, because copies were put in letter boxes in two Melbourne suburbs and mailed to virtually everyone who’s ever been on a LaRouche/CEC mailing list.

    “They handed out leaflets to students after their attempts to get this inarticulate homophobic bigot on campuses were thwarted by Jewish student organizations. . . . They even set up a couple of literature stands outside the Melbourne GPO, covered in placards announcing Bevel’s imminent arrival and staffed by fresh-faced kids well drilled in haranguing passers-by.

    “The Melbourne turn-up was a disaster even for the CEC. Between 130 and 150 demonstrators outside, chanting ‘CEC are Nazis!’ [Why does this remind me of the Seinfeld “I’m not Ryan” episode with George, Jerry and the free limo from LaGuardia? – HH]

    “A woeful 40 people went inside. Seating was arranged for 300, with a copy of the New Citizen on every seat. Most of those were paid-up LaRouchites. The rest were spies. Some people who assumed from the Age advertisement that the Reverend was still a civil rights activist turned away after reading the well-researched hand-outs exposing the CECs, Reverend Bevel and Lyndon LaRouche.

    “Inside, the Rev Bev managed to confuse anyone who could have been converted to the LaRouche cult, and confirmed the suspicions of everyone who has ever said that it is anti-Semitic.

    “’Hitler hated the Jews,’ we were told. ‘But he really hated himself. And he hated the German people even more. What Hitler did to the Jews was small. What Hitler did to the Germans was large. He hated the Germans and showed it be causing the country to be carved up by the Allies.’ So much for the Holocaust.

    “Then they took him to Murray Bridge in South Australia [not all that far from Adelaide – HH]. Twelve people turned up here. They managed to get the local newspaper editor so offside that it is doubtful they will ever be allowed to advertise here again.

    “You have to ask yourself, why do these people bother? Possibly because they know they’re on a good wicket, flying around the country, chatting away on their long-distance phone calls, playing away at being secret service agents and spending other people’s money like there was no tomorrow.

    “$25,000 spent for four or five new faces in the audience. That sort of gross financial negligence is usually reserved for government departments. That’s nearly a third of what the League of Rights spends in a year.

    “We wouldn’t blame their supporters for wanting their money back. More importantly, though, we wonder how long Lyndon LaRouche will keep sending cash to this bottomless pit of incompetents?”

    Today, of course, one can ask the same question a slightly different way: How long will the BP-pureed Dingos from Down Under continue to send money scammed from rural farmers to that peerless incompetent in Leesburg?

    Any idea Aussie Mum?
    Last edited by Hylozoic Hedgehog; 05-09-2009 at 11:26 PM.

  13. #1753
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    Default

    Dave G. pompous? I once heard him correct some German members on the proper pronunciation of certain German words.

    I think Dave quit because he he was outraged by Lyn claiming to be an expert in every field of human endeavor. Didn't Lyn realize Dave was the expert?

  14. #1754
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    Default Wrestling with the IRS

    Considering that Lyn has been raving for months about how only Molly Kronberg’s testimony on the tax count (Count XIII of the Alexandria indictment) put him away—apparently the other 12 counts covering mail fraud and conspiracy to commit mail fraud didn’t signify—anyhow, considering all that, it’s amusing to read this brief notice from the New York Times in summer 1986—more than two years before the Alexandria case, and more than two years before Molly Kronberg’s testimony.

    To wit:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1986/08/10/us...questions.html

    In the material below, the boldface is added by me for emphasis.

    Court Fines LaRouche $2,000 for Not Answering Questions

    AP
    Published: August 10, 1986

    Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr., the political extremist, has been fined $2,000 in Federal District Court for failing to answer questions from NBC about his personal finances.

    The questions were part of NBC's effort to collect a $202,000 award it won in a suit against Mr. LaRouche. He asserted that he did not know who had paid for his food, clothing, rent, transportation, bodyguards or lawyers since 1973. Federal Magistrate W. Curtis Sewell in Alexandria imposed the fine Friday after an NBC lawyer called those assertions ''inherently unbelievable.''


    This, of course, refers to LaRouche’s memorable 1984 libel case against NBC. He sued NBC for calling him something bad, and not only did he lose, but the jury fined him and he was ordered to pay NBC—beyond rare for a libel case.

    It must’ve been the marvelous impression LaRouche made on the jury when he took the stand.

    Also marvelous was his deposition in the case, taken by NBC attorney Kavalar.

    But the point is, I guess we can all see how touchy Lyn gets over questions of income, rent, royalty checks, bills--all of it.

    As Odin Anderson--yes, LaRouche's defense attorney--said in his closing arguments in the Alexandria case, it's hard for most of us to see how someone who lives like this cannot owe taxes.

  15. #1755

    Default

    I have read Pagels and thinks she writes a lot of interesting stuff, even if some borders to conspiracy-stuff. The emphasis on the role of women in some parts of early Christianity and some versions of early gnosticism is interesting. And much is to be said about the way women has been treated by the society and the churches over the centuries!

    I read Holy Blood Holy Grail three years ago and I did not like it. Too loose connections, rumours are presented as evidence, etc... It smelled LC-methods when I read it...

    The only value of the book, as I see it, is that it shows that one line of the Royal families of Europe claimed to be related to Christ. This is interesting. All Royal families in Europe has traced their bloodlines back to the Greeks, Romans or Israelis (or to Charles the Great or the wikings), to "proove" that they are ancient and are related back to the "great" kings in the early history. The Swedes had a national historian called Olof Rudbeck that did something similar in the 1600s. he created the national myth that Sweden was the old Atlantis and that all greek Gods were former Swedish kings and that the Paradise was situated just north of Uppsala in Sweden!



    Quote Originally Posted by borisbad View Post
    This stuff about the Gnostics and then the whole Knights Templar Movement is the kind of fascinating web spinning that made the DaVinci Code so popular and such a bane to the Church. I remember reading a take on this from the book the Holy Blood Holy Grail...

  16. #1756

    Default

    Yes! That is something the LYM-members should consider. The greatest economist that ever has lived does not know who pays for his food, clothings or rent!

    A great economist, right!?

    And what do you, dear LYM-members, think the judges thought when they heard the "great" economist say that? I can just imagine: "Well, did not the cult leader Bhagwan/Osho too say, three years ago, just before he went to prison, that he did not know where the money to buy his 90 Rolls Royce came from, or who bought his clothes!"

    /T

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglebeak View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/1986/08/10/us...questions.html


    The questions were part of NBC's effort to collect a $202,000 award it won in a suit against Mr. LaRouche. He asserted that he did not know who had paid for his food, clothing, rent, transportation, bodyguards or lawyers since 1973. Federal Magistrate W. Curtis Sewell in Alexandria imposed the fine Friday after an NBC lawyer called those assertions ''inherently unbelievable.''
    Last edited by European; 05-10-2009 at 08:22 AM.

  17. #1757
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    Default The Uniqueness of David P. Goldman

    I hadn't given this issue any thought at all until DPG's "Confessions (sic) of a Coward" was published here by European, so it was only on reading that piece, and reflecting on my personal knowledge of his tenure in the LC (that portion of it that I overlapped), that the underlying point I was trying to make in my post last night, and my critique of his faux confessions, came to me. Some of those who have commented seem to agree, others seem to not see my point, so I want to summarize what I was trying to say.

    For HH:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hylozoic Hedgehog View Post
    But I still don't see how his past history is reflected in his current world views.

    And a lot of people fudge data for the boss. Every article in New Solidarity that I ever wrote (and there were mercifully few of them, thank Mani!) tried to somehow make the story "relevant" to the current LC line. In fact, I remember thinking at the time that what you had to do was have a strong first paragraph echoing the party line and why anyone would want to read the story so you could justify your existence to Editorial and the rest of the article was my attempt to present my version of reality in an honest way. Then the final trick was with the close paragraph where you then had to somehow relate everything just stated to the initial opening paragraph fantasy.

    I usually went with something about how the titanic fight now being waged against Rockefeller by the good guys was now approaching a critical stage and that there were rays of sunlight on the horizon if we could just overcome the looming storm clouds, etc. So the first and last paragraphs were the party line and everything in-between was more or less an honest reflection my own independent delusions.
    I submit that you are uncharacteristically uncogent in your argument here, because "fudging data for the boss" is, in my book, a far cry from doing what you then go to so accurately describe as how you, and so many of us, had to write our articles. The operative point is that we were trying to say what we honestly believed was the truth, which was the "filling" in this sandwich, using the standard "line" for the first and last paragraphs. That's not fudging data for the boss, but trying to circumvent the boss by doing whatever is necessary to get out the accurate information, which we were emphatically NOT fudging.

    And THAT'S THE POINT I am trying to make. WE really believed in what we were doing, and writing about. We would never knowingly make up data, or if we discovered that something we were saying was demonstrably untrue, go ahead and publish it anyway. Dave did.

    And, as borismaglev also points out, I am not at all claiming that Dave's past history is reflected in his current world views. I am claiming that his past history is reflected in his current MO, his current disregard of truth, which appears to be a character trait, er, flaw. One wonders whether some of the lying is pathological, but demonstrably much of the lying while in LC was quite conscious. And surely he had to know that he was lying through his teeth in many important details in his "Confessions."

    And this dovetails completely with what someone just reported to be the nature of the Spengler columns, where he displayed a LaRouche-like ability to make sweeping generalizations and gross over-statements and exaggerations. Nothing has changed.

    And part of what people seemingly universally ascribe to "pompousness" is this certitude, expressed with an air of superiority. Based on nothing.

    Borismaglev, as I just noted, I concur in your observation below.
    Quote Originally Posted by borismaglev View Post
    Secondly, nobody here is saying that his past history is reflected in his current world views. His past behavior is seamlessly connected with his current behavior.

    Finally, Goldman's "different path to get out" is quite unique in that it is uniquely unlike what every other member who quit went through and this uniqueness makes it impossible for Goldman to "get ahead of his problem." This uniqueness has a name: ULTRAGLOW.
    Yes, I am flabbergasted about the Ultraglow revelation, in the sense that I never heard a whiff about it, and must confess that I, like whoever else said this, don't recall exactly how or when Dave floated away, or in my case, even when he ceased to head the Eco-fin sector. But the significance of this cannot be underestimated, because it reveals another core feature of his "Confessions" is also a lie--there was nothing moral in why he left, he left for pragmatic reasons.

    And xlcr, I luv ya, baby, but I am floored by what you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by xlcr4life View Post
    LaroucheTruth, yes, these columns are 100% self serving as they should be. I would think that he is writing for his audience, his close friends , close co workers and himself and not for ex members. Call me crazy, but I fully understand why he would do this.
    Let's note that Goldman's "Confessions" is intended to be, and is clearly being taken to be (as reflected in the comments on the FirstThings website), some sort of important testament to the power of religion, in this instance the Jewish religion, to help people see the errors of their previous ways and to find a new way. Sort of by definition, if I am not mistaken, a confession is supposed to be the truth, at least what you believe to be the truth. If most of what Goldman writes is provably a pack of lies, doesn't this sort of diminish, rather dramatically, the importance, interest, relevance and significance of his confession. Doesn't it, actually, negate them.

    Think for a moment. Would we find Augustine's Confessions very interesting if we knew that everything he wrote about the experiences he went through, and the torments he experienced, were all lies? I think the answer is self-evident.

    Hey, if Goldman is willing to lie so dramatically about his LC days, how can we trust his version of his religious conversion? Maybe he has ulterior motives in wanting to be a big wheel in Jewish circles. Maybe his "conversion" itself is cynical, not heartfelt.

    By way of closing the circle, the very brief article that Goldman wrote for FirstThings, that someone just posted the link to for us, is instructive. I am fairly confident that what Goldman wrote that talks about several sections of the Bible, and most importantly what he says about the importance of the fear of God, is total BS. It is typical Goldman. On the surface, it appears to make sense. But only on the surface. I may post my response to it here later, but it reads to me like classic Goldman, full of sweeping statements and phrases that appear at first to be profound, but which, on deeper examination, are seen to be empty verbiage designed to impress, without actually conveying any truth at all.

    And that's the point. THAT'S the true David P. Goldman. In this, rather crucial respect, he hasn't changed an iota from his LC days. His change from believing that LaRouche was God, to believing that Jehovah is God, represented a change of clothes, or perhaps a move to a different house in a different part of the country. It does not appear to have represented the kind of epiphanic "Damascas Road" type self-transformation that he claims it was. And the proof of the pudding is the tangle of lies big and small that pervade his Confessions article. What should one say about the faith of someone who thinks it's all right to lie in the very statement of one's having given oneself over to the service of God? I think the answer speaks for itself. If "self-serving" means such massive lying, how is this commendable just because it's for his friends and wo-workers? Is this some "noble lie" a la Plato. Not in my book. If he can't make a clean break by telling the truth, has he made a genuine break at all, other than a superficial one. In Goldman's case perhaps not. So I can understand why David P. "Dave" Goldman would do this, because it's in character, but I cannot find it commendable.

  18. #1758
    Hylozoic Hedgehog Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by larouchetruth View Post
    For HH:


    I submit that you are uncharacteristically uncogent in your argument here, because "fudging data for the boss" is, in my book, a far cry from doing what you then go to so accurately describe as how you, and so many of us, had to write our articles. The operative point is that we were trying to say what we honestly believed was the truth, which was the "filling" in this sandwich, using the standard "line" for the first and last paragraphs. That's not fudging data for the boss, but trying to circumvent the boss by doing whatever is necessary to get out the accurate information, which we were emphatically NOT fudging.
    Fair enough.

    I just didn't know him well enough to know if he really believed what he wrote or was just making things up to advance his own status and didn't mind. But since his "Confessions" do read more like an "alibi" -- and not a very good one at that -- they alone suggest you are right in your evaluation. Finally, I also was flabbergasted by "Ultraglow" which suggests new depths to the Spengler saga that I can't even begin to grasp.

  19. #1759

    Exclamation Bevel

    I just remembered a thing about Bevel!

    But in order to write about that I have to go back to the years 1992 to 1994 and tell the story about the failed attempts then to build a youth movement (and to expand to Eastern Europe).

    There were some attempts around 1992 to 1994 to recruit young people to the LaRouchemovement.

    In Europe this attempt could be seen in the way the organization tried to recruit students from Eastern Europe. I have already written about the 1994 cadre school at Smolenice in Slovakia were Lyndon met with the young members and contacts of the organization in Europe. That was a kind of cadre school that was similar to the cadre schools that we later saw with LYM.

    Overall this attempt was a great failure. The closest the organization came to recruit someone from Easter Europe was in the case of a young Croatian girl (M), who actually spent some months in Wiesbaden... But it ended in a failure since she did not behave as Helga and the organization wanted her to behave!

    The Smolenice thing was quite absurd, when looking back. Of all young people that participated I believe only one, a danish girl, is still in the organization. And perhaps a german/american girl (jessica) if she still is in the organization, and if she was in Europe at the time.

    Another thing that happened was that Jim Bevel worked to recruit young members.

    I remember that I spoke to some EEC members around 1994 about how to recruit youngsters. For some strange reason Sweden and Australia were the two success stories were young people were recruited at the time. The EEC member said that with BEVEL some NEC members in USA hoped to start to recruit youth again!

    (The fact that Sweden recruited youngsters created a kind of paradox for the organization. This because Sweden was quite isolated at the time. The Swedish organization was more liberal than all other parts of the organization, the members had regular jobs to earn money and the leader was Mike, who openly questioned some things that Lyndon said and did and who was somewhat of a free mind! Helga and the EEC thought the Swedes were too liberal and "destroyed" members that was sent to Sweden as a part of an exchange, so for many years almost no visitors came to Sweden. I remember that I in 2001 looked at it and saw that the danish local (they were more PC) got as many visitors in eleven months as we in Sweden had had for eleven years! With visitors I mean normal organizers that participate in an exchange, not EEC and NEC members. The big whigs of the organization used to come for conferences and such stuff, otherwise we were isolated because we were too liberal!)

    I met Bevel twice or thrice. At a conference in Europe about 1993-1994, and one other time or perhaps twice, either it was in Leesburg or in Europe.

    In 1993/1994 I remember that I sat together with some youngsters from Sweden and Poland. He spoke about sex. The basic idea with what he said to us youngsters, was to say that one had to control once sexlife and sexual instincts in order to become a good political organizer. He said that he used to have sex with cows (!) as a kid, as all other kids had (!), and that almost all young people today (!) have sex in in the same "unscientific" and hedonistic way as he used to have sex with cows (!). "And we did not care if the cow (!) was male or female, as long as there was a hole to stick it in", I remember he said... Bevel appealed to us young people (I was 24 at the time) to make a revolt against the sexual habits of "today". Homosexuality, and sex when dating, SEXUAL ATTRACTION, etc, was "unscientific" and a way for the oligarchy (Yes, he spoke about them too!) to control people... Off course, Bevel said that he was "scientific" when he wanted to eradicate lust from sexuality...

    Ok, he spoke about other things too... To be a world historical individual and such... But for the moment, let us focus on the way he spoke about sex, because in this way we see how it is related to BP!

    This talk about cows might sound a bit absurd, but look at it from the standpoint of BP (beyond Psychoanalysis) and look at how the organization started to recruit kids around 1999 to 2000 in the LYM. There are many similarities.

    Uncontrolled emotions, and so called uncontrolled sexuality is a threat. You have to let the brain (the mind) rule over your sexual instincts. Sex in the normal way people have it, is like mastrubation, and thus something very evil and DIRTY!

    The skull and bones blog calls the cult an "antisexual cult". I actually more and more believe this to be the case too! The way BP works in recruiting young people is that it uses SEX, or rather the young peoples concepts about sex, as a method to recruit them.

    There is much talk about Schiller and the unity of emotions and the mind in the organization, but when it comes to sex the organization uses the same method as many other cults, they talk about CONTROL because by talking about CONTROL and SEXUALITY they recruit.

    When looking back upon my time as an organizer I can see that when we succeeded to recruit people, it was very much due to BP-like methods. So when we hade a whole bunch of young people that joined or wanted to join around 1992 to 1995 it was very much thanks to BP-like methods that one American here had reintroduced to Sweden. I too used many of these methods, shame to say, at this period of time and later when we started to recruit youngsters again around the same time as LYM was created.

    Thus... Look at Bevel from the standpoint of BP and what later became LYM, and you can see one of the reasons why Bevel became so important for the organization at the time!

    It all becomes very disgusting when one considers that the abused daughter of Bevel was in Europe with him. I believe I met saw here with Bevel at the same luncheon were Bevel spoke about sex with cows... Disgusting!


    /T

    (Bevel did not participate in SMolenice. Webster T. did. I remember that he sang Chatanooga Choo Choo one evening when we had some kind of party with dancers from Slovakia and everything... It was brilliant and funny. But I remeber the way Lyndon looked at him afterwards. Chatanooga Choo Choo is hardly an approved song to sing when trying to recruit youngsters! )
    Last edited by European; 05-10-2009 at 10:15 AM.

  20. #1760

    Default

    Well, with this thread on Dave Goldman, I had to bite the bullet and finally subscribe.
    I'm sorry to see the ill will the memory of Dave seems to generate here, but I probably shouldn't be surprised. He desperately wanted to be part of the "inner circle" and the analogy to Eddie Haskell I found very funny and spot-on.
    Anyway, before getting to my fix on Dave's exit (mental and physical) from the LC, I just thought he should be given credit for something probably no one but me and perhaps 2 other people know. The org's fascination for German lieder and hausmusik has absolutely nothing to do with the European organization, the work of Christine Berl or Anno Hellenbroich. It started in London when Dave took 50 pounds and we went to pick up an old upright piano in the north of London somewhere. Then we went to buy music--piano sonatas for him and Mozart and Bach piano/violin sonatas and volume I of the Peter's Schubert lieder. And we played music. (Claiming that "we made beautiful music together" would be stretching the point, as things worked out :-) ). It was my first introduction to German lieder and although I had no formal vocal training, I was able to get through some of them. Then, around the Chris White affair, we were pulled back to New York, we moved Dave's baby grand piano into a tiny Washington Heights apartment (it took up the entire living room) and with John Sigerson, who lived two floors up, the dynamic lieder duo was born. Renée and I would listen. (It was during that period that John, Renée, Dave and I were dubbed, by Danny Goldberg, I think, Desi/Lucy/Fred/Ethel). Then, together with Tessa De Carlo, who lived just down the street, we began to put together our own hausmusik evenings, playing string trios, adding a pianist, etc. For people in the organization who had never studied classical music, I can understand how the org's "music work" was seen as an imposition and cultural bullying (much like the FEF's "math project" was for me -- hated those math classes!), but for those of us who had spent years studying an instrument, it was a bright spot in the madness of those early months of 1974. John and Dave worked hard on the Schoene Muellerin, in preparation for Lyn's return from Europe, and then performed it for Lyn, who has ecstatic. Renée played a Bach cello suite, I think, and Dave and I muddled our way (badly) through Beethoven's Kreutzer sonata. And hausmusik was born. The rest is history.
    In terms of Dave's "confession", I wouldn't be that hard on him. I think the point that was made (can't remember by whom, sorry, and there's too much to sort through) that it was not written for an ex-LC readership is relevant. For that audience, it's the "overview" as we used to say, and not the specific details that are important, and I must say that the psychological distancing Dave describes rings true ... it's just that I remember the reasons behind this distancing to be somewhat different.
    The reason someone wrote that they couldn't remember when Dave stopped being the head of the Eco-Fin sector is because, at a certain point, the Eco-Fin sector stopped existing, due to the fund raising push after Will Wertz was brought into New York. So, although there had been disagreements with Lyn over economic policy (there always were, who doesn't remember Nick storming into economics, screaming GOLDMAN! at the top of his lungs at least 2-3 times a week after having taken one of Dave's analyses to the NEC with Lyn the night before?), the real reason, I believe, Dave was "cashiered" as head of Eco-Fin was because it no longer existed. Everyone was on the phones.
    The key psychological point here is that Dave (and I) desperately wanted to be part of the Gus/Computron new economic order within the organization. We definitely bought into the idea of the org as an "elite" think tank and absolutely wanted to see the end of mindless street organizing in the US. In this period, the early 1980s from our standpoint LYN AND HELGA WERE ABSOLUTELY BEHIND THIS OUTLOOK. They had fantastic houses, first on Sutton Place and then in the Bronx IN THE SAME APARTMENT BUILDING AS ANDY AND GUS and, thanks to Helga, the European organization had a "normal" lifestyle with decent housing, regular stipends and days off ... paradise from a US organizer's viewpoint. Despite what he would write when Gus quit, there is no doubt in my mind that Lyn knew absolutely everything about Computron and this whole orientation. I personally heard him approve of it, more than once, during the "musikabend" held in Sutton Place. No NEC, not even Helga, who basically hates music, except for bread-and-circus events. Just Lyn and those of us invited to come play music. At a certain point, in 1974-75, Lyn had picked out a violin/piano sonata to play with me and even began practicing it (he said), but unfortunately that never came to fruition ... it would have been interesting to see if he actually did know how to play the piano.
    So, in the early 80s, as Dave identifies as the time frame in which he was in contact with Wanniski and Bailey, while still in the LC, we were both, in our own ways, part of the "elitist" faction, Dave with his private contacts and me at WorldComp. Then, with Lyn's crackdown following the Computron/Gus resignation, we were both slammed, hard. And Dave got the brunt of it in the NO with Wertz and the new regime. His life was miserable and he began maneuvering to have his own "turf" and contacts outside the org. At the same time, he began gravitating to the music work and the European situation. First, as I recall, with Carlo Levi-Minzi and piano technique, although this caused a problem because he put such heavy weights on the piano keys that he destroyed his hand and, through Carlo, went to Milan to have the ligaments repaired (paid for by the LC). Then, during rehab, he began working on Schenker, I recall, more than the C-256 push. This took him often to Europe, but starting already in the early 80s. When the NO was still in New York (so it would have been pre-1984, right?), I remember having dinner with an NEC member, without Dave, who informed me that Dave was being sent to Europe because he had been involved in something he shouldn't have been. Was this Ultraglow? I don't know or don't remember anymore, I certainly never knew the details of anything similar.
    Dave then spent the next few years going back and forth to Europe, but as I was to discover dramatically in 1986, the real reason was because he was having an affair with the org's French professional pianist contact (the so-called "dark period" of his personal life, that Dave alludes to in his Confessions). During this period, he worked with Laurent M. in Wiesbaden, and somewhat on the music. He prepared the new edition of Dope Inc. (with or without the Protocols?--there was discussion over whether or not to pull them, and I can't remember what was actually decided, to remove them, I think, but maybe someone else knows for sure) and the Milton Friedman book.
    During this whole period, up until 1986 when I left, I never saw ANY move towards a renewed Jewish consciousness. I actually remember him making disparaging remarks about people who were researching the Jewish renaissance. Truth-to-tell, his real role model was Heinrich Heine, who converted from Judaism to Christianity (Protestantism, not Catholicism). Dave was very taken in this period with the whole trinity/agape thesis Lyn was pushing, although he certainly did not accept the religious aspects, only the philosophical ones. Once out of the org, he made fun of me for returning to my Episcopalian roots. So, on the question of his Jewish conversion while still within the org, I would have to say I saw absolutely no sign of it. And Dave was never one to pray ... I saw him desperate many times, but never humble and repentant.
    In July 1986 we split up and I left the org. in September '86. Dave stayed in for some months after that--mid 1987, I seem to recall. In the meantime he got together with his current wife, a long-time LC member. They both wanted children, so, in my humble opinion, the real reason for his final break were (perfectly valid!) personal reasons, not lofty philosophical ones. If I'm not mistaken, when he left, his first move was to go back to school and get his Masters in musicology, with Schenkerian Carl Schacter, but I think he may also have been in touch with Christine Berl, although I'm not 100% sure of this. It was only after a year or so that he segued into Wall Street and Wanniski. We were in touch off-and-on during the divorce proceedings and when he came to Italy to give a seminar on Schenker, we met (this would have been 1989, probably).
    So, to sum up, Dave's characterization of Wanniski and Bailey as his spiritual keys out of the LC rings true to me, but not the religious ones and, in the final analysis, as with most people, I think the driving impetus was purely personal reasons.

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