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04-20-2007, 09:13 AM
Just ran into this from LaRouche addressing their chapter in Beverly Hills where he really attacks the baby boomers even in 2005 and blames them for various problems. It's funny reading Harley Schlanger bow and scrape to his massuh.
04-21-2007, 09:31 PM
He was referred to his problems with Baby-boomers in reference to Clinton as far back as what would have had to have been 1996. (I remember it as 1992, but that couldn't have been, because he wouldn't have been speaking before crowds that year for informercial broadcasts.)
But the last pamphlet I scanned, a "LYM"er asked him for his thoughts on Bill Clinton who "even though he is a baby-boomer"... It's amazing how Larouche imparted those precise memes to his followers.
04-21-2007, 11:30 PM
For those of you following the terrible story of the suicide of Ken Kronberg--the morning briefing that appeared the day he died--the one with the attack on the printing company, PMR, and the advice thereafter to Baby Boomers (like Kronberg) to commit suicide, was written by Tony Papert, channeling LaRouche and pretty obviously quoting him. Papert is in the leadership layer of the Org, and by the way, he hated Ken Kronberg with a passion. Wonder if he intended the result he got?
Either way, the LaRouchies killed Kronberg and this is one blob of toothpaste even ole Lyn won't be able to put back in the tube.
04-22-2007, 09:34 PM
For what it is worth, the public face:
Obviously they can't pretend it's not there.
04-23-2007, 04:33 PM
But, to give the devil his due, it appears a thoughtful and sincere encomium.
04-23-2007, 08:47 PM
To the extent the Kronberg obituary appears thoughtful and sincere, it's probably because some members of the LaRouchies are in agony over this right now. Let's hope they stay that way.
04-24-2007, 07:35 AM
I went to Ken's funeral last week, and there was a surreal quality to the easy mixing of past and current members, especially at the reception following the service. Members who quit 5, 10, 20, even 30 years ago circulated freely, chatting with current members about children, high school sports, colleges. I got the distinct feeling that the psychosis of the morning briefing has less and less of a hold on many of the current members. I discussed this with Fernando, whom I greeted as the antichrist in league with the black guelph. After a good laugh, we agreed that members must not believe the nonsense they're forced to spout; otherwise how could Fernando be greeted as a long-lost friend.
04-24-2007, 07:43 AM
It was heartbreaking to talk to some current members, now out of a job since Worldcomp's and PMR's bankruptcy. They face the job market in their mid-50s, with few skills and a checkered work history. Listen dear friends: It's never too late to quit. The real world seems scary, but it can be wonderful. I can't promise miracles; you may have to work low-wage jobs the rest of your life. So, would you rather work low-wage, or no-wage jobs for Larouche, and be subjected to constant harangues about how ineffectual all you useless eater baby boomers are. If you think facing the job market now is tought, stay in the org another 10 years. Then you'll be in your mid-60s, Lyn wil be dead, Helga will be the sybaritic titular head of the org, and the day-to-day ops will be run by some thirty-something who hates you and wishes you would jump off an overpass. You may not have to quit. You may be kicked out. Or pushed out.
04-24-2007, 08:35 AM
Very true words "realme". I also have been reading accounts from people who went to Ken's funeral, which I was not able to make unfortunately. In a way I think it liberating that people who had left the organization at many different times in history showed that they could confront current members without feeling intimidated or shamed at "betraying humanity" etc. I'm sure that simple fact may encourage others that life exists outside the organization and that one can still enjoy classical music, Shakespeare, and even Schiller without everything being filtered through Lyn's tortured interpretations.
04-24-2007, 03:54 PM
Here's an interesting site http://motherskadi.livejournal.com/
The Most Holy Order of Wayward Fans
Seems to be a site devoted to Robert Beltran (the Prince), the Hollywood TV actor (Star Trek)--and recent posts zero in on Beltran's devotion to LaRouche (The Archon) and slam him for his slavish regard for LaRouche, esp. in the context of Ken Kronberg's suicide. So check out the site. Interesting.
04-24-2007, 05:58 PM
Actually it's a fan site, although Beltran does dominate whenever he is hard at work playing with the LYM. Or like now, given the situation surrounding Kronberg's death. He joined up in 2001 and has been a fixture with the LYM ever since. Harley Schlanger may have helped to recruit him once he expressed an interest.
04-25-2007, 03:25 AM
I have been contacted by an individual who says they are a reporter. Kronberg's death has gotten attention. This is what the reporter is writing about:
the recent suicide of Ken Kronberg and the operations at PMR and other LHL publishing houses....anything you might know about those topics (did you know Ken?), and....your experience more generally -- your observations of the movement, what was good, what was bad, why you left, etc.
The reporter can be reached at email@example.com. I was told that the privacy of those who come forward will be respected. I have sent an email to the editors of the publication the story will run requesting confirmation about the reporter and the story, so for now contact the reporter at your own risk. I should have an answer by tonight, and will post either way as to what I am told.
04-25-2007, 10:27 AM
Got the same notice and also requested confirmation that the reporter is who he says he is. I did check out the reporter on the internet although he gave me a different email address to respond to.
04-25-2007, 04:52 PM
The Yahoo addy is the public one. He followed up with the name and phone for the editor. I will call as it is the sensible thing to do. However his willingness to play ball on our checking up on him does make me feel a lot better about the inquiry.
04-26-2007, 04:54 PM
Heard from the editor so I guess LHL is in for another skewering. I don't know what will be written, but it's fair to think he won't like it, and will no doubt blame it on Cheney and synarchists.
I think this may be the ultimate karmic justice -- LHL abuses and betrays a follower, whose untimely and unnecessary death leads to more painful and unwelcome exposure for LHL.
04-27-2007, 04:14 AM
I too went to Ken Kronberg's funeral. A few noteworthy things:
1. There was no mention whatsoever of LHL or the Labor Committee throughout the service.
2. The sermon at some point quoted Kronberg as saying something like: I used to think the universe was run by conflict, everyone attacking each other, but now I know it's run by Love. Pretty obvious polemic against You Know Who.
3. The written item called "Remembering Ken" that was passed out to those attending--which was written by Kronberg's wife Molly, also a longtime member--did not mention LaRouche or the ICLC or PMR or Fidelio or Campaigner or ....--not a word.
There were a lot of LCers at the funeral, but it's not clear whether they noticed any of this or not. The large number of ex-LCers present sure noticed it.
Looked like a posthumous repudiation of LaRouche by Kronberg--actually, not just posthumous (see the quote from the sermon).
04-27-2007, 03:24 PM
They did a pretty good job, and continue to do a pretty good job of pretending the public face isn't there when it comes to Jeremiah Duggan's death. I can only say that I'm sorry LaRouche is still alive to kill again.
04-27-2007, 03:28 PM
What normal people call attending a solemn service to honor a friend and his surviving family is called damage control by Lyn's cult of deadender acolytes. They know what happened for years and have gone along with every last bit Lyn's delusions to the bitter end.
Many people attended the funeral who worked with Ken and only stuck around because of Ken. Lyn hated anything which did not revolve around him and those of you who are in Leesburg based your last drops of hope in Leesburg on knowing Ken instead of Lyn.
When we first announced the suicide, I recieved this Email which I think conveys why many ex members attended his funeral out of respect for Ken instead of obeying Lyn's command from the basement like the deadender acolytes. Acolytes who spent more time writing reports on who was there and if they are in or out for the security files.
Please tell me, was it Kronberg?
I've been quite upset about this all day. Can't you just see it, the Waxpool Rd. overpass, just down the road from WorldComp and PMR. And within sight of Wegman's, AOL, all the trappings of wealth in Loudoun County.
25 years of economic collapse have brought a 6-lane freeway, lots of intelligent and well-off people who are making the politics of the county increasingly progressive, housing, little league, fine dining, prosperity as far as the eye can see. And where is the org? Or better yet, where does poor Kronberg find himself?
I just checked WorldComp's and PMR's websites. They were last updated in 2000 and 2001, respectively. And PMR is supposed to stand for Printing-Mailing-Resource or some such nonsense. Does anyone besides me remember that it stood for Phil-Martin-Rudy. Phil Ulanowsky whose money bankrolled the business, Martin
Kerner of "Propaganda" whose management of the slaves was supposed to make the business profitable, and Rudy, whose last name I've forgotten, whose slave labor built the business.
Ken was the latest victim of this monstrosity called the Larouche organisation. The witless jabronis of the LYM are all standing in line to be the next victims, with hardly a clue of what awaits them as Lyn will run circles around them.
Many accepted the psycho lunacy of the coverage of Jeremiah Duggan's death and will now be asked to swallow Lyn's future tales and pretend that what they read for years by Lyn about Ken never existed.
Leesburg today is like watching a Fellini movie remade by George Romero. Lyn demands new blood to replace the old and the LYM are the new supply to keep the surreal and intense insanity going for a bit.
04-29-2007, 05:41 AM
Ken Kronberg was the latest victim of the monstrosity, and in the worst possible way--although some are speculating that the reason Kronberg jumped from that overpass rather than kill himself quietly, was that he wanted to make some real trouble for LaRouche as he went out. Plus he may have connected it, subconsciously or consciously, to Jeremiah Duggan's death on the autobahn.... (LaRouche claimed that Duggan "committed suicide" by running into traffic.)
In other words, Ken Kronberg may have realized he was gonna cause a lotta trouble for LHL this way. Because everyone agrees that doing this "just wasn't Ken." (Unless he was pushed?)
Meanwhile, let's review the past year in terms of destruction of the Old Guard:
1. NEC member and founding member Ed Spannaus, age 60-something, becomes target of vicious personal attack on grounds that he changed a headline in EIR or a leaflet or something. (He says he didn't do it.) After weeks of this, LHL throws Ed off NEC and says he's "busting him to private."
2. EEC member and founding European member Uwe Friesecke, age 50-something, is attacked for months in LHL memos and at conferences as a "kingpin" and thief and cult leader. Real reason is he resists giving $$ to the LYM. He is suspended in late 2006, and before long the whole German leadership and a lot of the membership take off.
3. NC member Ken Kronberg, age 59, is attacked in briefings and at conferences (in Europe--they gave up having conferences in U.S.), for having "made a bad investment" and destroyed the organization. (yes, LHL actually said that.)Plus his operation is run into the ground for lack of $$ from the Org.
No wonder the NEC looks so bad. I saw them at Kronberg's funeral. Hey, folks, isn't it time to switch off the organizational death machine?
04-29-2007, 06:56 PM
I have recently become aware of this page and have started reading all messages and links. Just a few first comments and questions:
there is not much about Helga, why? She is the one who enjoys a mondane lifestyle and consumes a large part of the org's money - not so much, Lyn. Those who know him well, know that he doesn't care about extravagancies; even the large quantities of Rheingau he used to consume and I guess still does, wasn't on the expensive side...
When it comes to sexual affairs, nobody has mentioned Vivian who has been Lyn's playmate before he started to get on with Helga.
The LYM members should be told to ask Lyn about his son! It would be interesting to see Lyn's reaction. I remember a private meeting in NYC at which his son attented. It was a very bizarre situation. Lyn would ridicule his son in front of the present LCers and would heavily insult his mother. It told me a lot about the way, Lyn cares about human beings. By the way, is it known in the org that Helga (the founder of the "Club of Life") had urged female members who got pregnant to live up to their political responsibility and undergo abortion?
Helga and Lyn never owned a castle. You talk about a place at the Hunsrueck mountains which had been bought by a founding member of the German org and has long been sold because the org wasn't paying enough rent to finance the loan... Also, the place they now live in (near Ingelheim) is owned by two members of the org (of whom one has left the org recently). I wonder what would happen if the second quits as well: I guess Helga will start sharing the feelings of so many members who didn't know where they would live the next month after the money for paying the rent wouldn't come in.
04-30-2007, 05:57 PM
t'would a pity be t'were this site used by exlcers to conduct past personal vendettas.
focus on the evil larouche, you boobalas, and let the past be past re people who are 'out.'
04-30-2007, 06:43 PM
The past is past for us who enjoy the sun and fresh air now that we are free of the childish delusion that one person has all answers to all questions: the problem is that there are young people still in Plato's Cave constrained to watch repeated, "historic" webcasts and to help fill the coffers of a small-time cult of personality while squandering their own talents and compromising their character.
04-30-2007, 08:44 PM
The other problem is that the past can never be just the past for--for example--Ken Kronberg's family or Jeremiah Duggan's family.
04-30-2007, 08:46 PM
The other problem is that the past can never be just the past for--for example--Ken Kronberg's family or Jeremiah Duggan's family.
05-01-2007, 04:19 PM
I agree with boomerang. Past is useful to clarify things but too many ex members, after realizing they were screwed or screwed others, prefer to either "forget" or try to sort their past out by showing how much larouche is evil etc... There is no alternative in my view, for some "redemption", than helping others not to repeat the same mistakes... this is the best way to honor the memories of dead victims like Jeremiah or Ken.
05-02-2007, 03:14 AM
I feel for you. So sad. I've passed your info. on in the hope that maybe you're not past getting the assistance you need.
My sympathies to all who have lost loved ones to this fraud. May God in His mercy prevent any further such suicides.
05-02-2007, 05:44 PM
i see the lunatic has escaped from the asylum again.... dressed in her "super girl" cape! local populations and star trek actors beware! .....passed on "my info"? as usual, you are delusional and reverting to your stalker ways.... no worries, though, as the police have "your info" on file ....watch out for those men in white coats...
current song: "rescue me" by aretha franklin
offer a prayer: for your sanity
(Message edited by sir_ehk_rerednaw on May 02, 2007)
05-03-2007, 04:53 AM
no worries, though, as the police have "your info" on file
The posturing never ends does it? There have been no testy warning letters from legal counsel and no arrest warrants issued, or served, so your ravings are nothing more than that. Then again, that would mean you are the perfect sycophant for LHL.
05-04-2007, 05:17 AM
Sancho - the links to the homily and the tribute aren't working.
05-04-2007, 09:58 AM
Big things are taking place in Windy Hill , the secret location of the man who has successfully predicted the end of the world, economy and Hegla's shopping trips for over 3 decades.
In a late night meeting Lyn , along with the NEC had a brain storm over
and how to interpret it. Jeff S. said "Lyn, as somone who has delusions of running this cult after you pass away, I agree that this is on par with www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com) Give me a few days and I will show how it is tied to Dick Cheney.
Anton Chaitkin then showed up , breathless after running top speed since the LaroucheMobile was busy cruising DC streets for new blood to feed Lyn
(That story is coming later)
Lyn, Lyn!! It is obvious, the web site appeared the EXACT day that the Queen of England arrived in Northern Virginia!
"My old arch enemy the Queen of England!" Lyn shouted! "I thought I put her away in the 1984 presidential election. Quick, get me Mr. Ed, Carpet and the CIA via Paul G on the Larouchephone."
"This is bigger than I thought" whispered Lyn to Nancy Spannaus. "If it wasn't for your idiot husband changing headlines in EIR, The Queen of England would not be showing up here to stop the LYM!"
Eyeing Anton Chatikin Lyn gushed "You know Tony, I could use a Boy Wonder to take on the Queen of England , and you just might be the boy". Chaitkin giggled like a school girl at the thought. "Unlike your brother in law Will Wertz, you know your place in a small prison cell" Lyn boomed.
Chaitkin regained his composure and assured Lyn that he would put together the whole special report for the briefing which ties the Queen of England to Dick Cheney and Al Gore and how all are teaming up to stop the LYM.
"Those fiends" snarled Lyn, as barked on the LarouchePhone to make sure that the LPAC quota of 10,000 hits a day is met, or humanity is doomed as we know it.
05-07-2007, 10:56 AM
For an interesting take on a LaRouche conference by a fairly recent "victim" you can go to this page on the Rick Ross website.
05-07-2007, 11:40 AM
Ok guys, here is an appeal from the "devil" himself... Dennis King :
STOPPING LAROUCHE BEFORE MORE LIVES ARE DESTROYED
have a look at
and tell me what u think of...
05-07-2007, 06:07 PM
Dennis King may just end up giving LHL the boost he needs, circle the wagons around the old known 'enemy'. What will King do when LHL finally fades into oblivion? Now that I think about it, it does seem kind of sad how some people have devoted so much time and energy to what is a small insignificant pimple on the rear end of the world. So many more worthy causes!!
It's possible that people who were subjected to the wierd (but supercharged world) of LHL feel a little let down when they reenter the "real world", sort of like fish out of water. Maybe they miss the action -- so they become sleuths, research specialists and anti-LaRouche experts. Plus they have a Cause to live for. People who joined probably had a little bit of a savior complex to start with. Kind of sad.
05-07-2007, 06:29 PM
Each individual human being is of immeasurable worth. Lyndon LaRouche is a racketeer and convicted felon who has suborned young people for over four decades by manipulating them into buying his countless Walter Mitty poses. If this message board and the work of Dennis King and others prevent even one youth from casting his lot with this criminal cult, then all the effort is worthwhile. You needn't worry about us: we are on the side of what is good, healthy, and decent.
05-07-2007, 09:04 PM
Listen to this lunatic (a briefing slug posted on Dennis King's website):
- 150 18-APR-2007 11:12:42.87 MAIL
Subj: Policy on Ken
FROM:LAR " Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. "
SUBJ:POLICY ON KEN KRONBERG SUICIDE
April 18, 2007 (10:21am) EDT
Evidence presently placed at my disposal has now shown me
the actually determining personal factor in the suicide of Ken
Kronberg, This additional evidence corresponds precisely
with both my personal knowledge of both Ken, and also the
business circumstances within which his actions were situated.
At some later time, it will be appropriate to disclose at least a
significant aspect of that evidence. That, evidence includes,
essentially, not so much the cause of Ken's suicide, but certain
usually overlooked, but crucial, aggravating factors in his
situation, factors which are to be traced, for emphasis, to
evidence dating chiefly from the period when Ken was under
the joint misdirection of Fernando Quijano and Uwe Friesecke
during the early through late 1990s.
Therefore, since Nancy Spannaus' already published version
of the biographical note, is truthful in respect to what it
includes, that should be the only official reference to Ken's
passing made publicly by our association at this time.
In coming times...
During the immediate months ahead, I will come to share my
present, other knowledge on the matter, only with persons
who have relevant competence, or who have a special right to
know. Although the essentials of the case are now clear to me,
there are relevant supplementary factors, including the already
Press RETURN for more...
- 150 18-APR-2007 11:12:42.87 MAIL
known current British operation by the friends and
accomplices of Al Gore against our association, which must
still be more fully explored.
It should be recalled, that I am exceptionally good at
intelligence work, with a record, in my areas of specialization,
far exceeding that of most known professionals otherwise.
Intelligence is, as my experience, more likely to be accurate in
identifying the nature of the relevant situation, than in locating
the detailed features of the subject-matter. In this case, I know
the character of the problem, but must no exclude surprises
which now turn up as factors to be considered in pinning down
the details which make for detailed evidence of what I already
know the nature of the subject to be.
05-07-2007, 09:57 PM
Regarding boomerang's comments: I don't really know what to make of Dennis King's psyche for playing Ahab to Lyndon Larouche as Moby Dick, but I am thinking someone has fill that role. The motives of the ex-Larouchites here are somewhat interesting, and I can understand an early statement on this thread on getting past "ex-Larouchie" stage. But I also see not doing so, sticking around to try to float the information out. I see that an article was posted here which I had some part in -- a college student contacted me and I got her in touch with a recent member -- who had left a message on my blog (I am "Mr. Skull and Bones"), apparently there for a long time. It was a bit of a pain emailing him, insofar as he took a long, long time responding. It didn't occur to me that he probably has conflicted opinions on dealing with this monsterous part of his life -- move on, versus -- as I put it -- get some information out. (Added, apparently, a good deal of intimidation I wasn't thinking about.)
05-08-2007, 03:39 AM
I find this recent thread an interesting attempted diversion, to focus attention and blame on the victims rather than on the victimizer.
Just know: for LaRouche - with these recent deaths of Jews - the chickens are once again coming home to roost - regardless of the motivations of ex-members who post here.
His days are numbered - in more ways than one.
05-08-2007, 03:19 PM
I am one of many people involved in editing the Wikipedia article on LaRouche, where a constant battle is waged by his minions to delete unfavorable information or put a spin on it. People on FactNet might be interested in the following posting I made on the LaRouche article discussion page, after restoring text on Kronberg's death that had been deleted and moved:
"I am opposed to the Kronberg suicide material being moved to the LaRouche Movement page. The Lyndon LaRouche biography page is clearly the most visited of the LaRouche-related pages on Wikipedia. The previous editor in effect was trying to bury the news on Kronberg in a place where it would do the minimum damage to LaRouche's reputation. In fact, Kronberg's suicide was triggered by decisions made by LaRouche personally--to hound the old-timers in his organization and expel them, to suggest suicide as their way out, to financially loot the printing company that Kronberg managed (and then blame it on Kronberg) and to subject Kronberg and other old timers (especially Jewish ones) to cruel psychological abuse. Doing this kind of thing is part of LaRouche's personal life story and should not be pawned off to the LaRouche Movement page as if he bore no personal responsibility.--Dking? 22:08, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
05-08-2007, 09:08 PM
I completely concur with D. King. LaROuche bears personal responsibility indeed. It was his drunken rant against PMR and Baby Boomers, and for suicide, which was the basis of the morning briefing Papert wrote which was published the morning of the day Kronberg died.
LaRouche has been ranting against the printing company and Kronberg intensely for the past year, and more generally since he (LHL) got out of jail in 1994.
So I urge everyone--keep an eye on Wikipedia and make sure Kronberg's death is a feature of the LaRouche biography. After all, ultimately, LaRouche is the one who killed him.
05-09-2007, 10:08 AM
Howie aka Skull and Bones,I have read your blog and find it sharp and funny, and pretty insightful. But again, choosing LaRouche as your subject elevates him into an interesting & important subject, like a rare lilly species being examined by a confab of horticulturists. Isn't the attention LHL receives out of proportion to his significance? The emergence of Dennis King in the role of coordinator of LHL activities and intelligence might not have the effect of saving young people or freeing people still with LHL, either. Because it could prove to members that one of their old enemies is back and is proof of the vast conspiracy out to destroy them.
And at the risk of sounding like an LHL "plant" or spy, I think the idea that LHL is "killing Jews" is overly dramatic.
05-09-2007, 10:26 AM
LaRouche's significance as a political force or philosophical figure is negligible. His significance as a rather ominous Pied Piper who has ruined countless lives is far greater.
As to the overdramaticism of "killing Jews," how about just "killing people"? Because that he certainly does and has done. So why not focus on LaRouche's deadly effect on human beings, rather than criticize someone else for being too dramatic in their remarks on LaRouche's deadly effects?
I have no idea whether or not you are an LHL flak; that's just a piece of basic humane advice.
05-09-2007, 10:53 AM
It s the same old story, shared by many : don't expose larouche, it ll give the publicity he s craving for and reinforce his movement into their paranoid belief there is an anti-lhl conspiracy. Well, sorry but lhl doesnt need to be attacked. He can use ANY event in the world to boost his own importance in the eyes of his followers. Ok, it helps when King attacks him but hey, look at the wild conspiracy theories he s concocted around 9/11, Diana, Gore or Dick Cheney to mention just the recent ones. It s so easy to concoct things to an army of brainless believers. The real issue raised by D King is about this guilty silence from some ex members who prefer to turn a blind eye on yet another dead body like Ken Kronberg's. The message for lhl is: "I got away with Jeremiah, now Ken... mmm who s next?"
05-09-2007, 11:27 AM
I also want to pay homage to Jeremiah whose sense of morality and dedication to the truth forced him to challenge larouche and his organisation. He paid with his life. Many of us didnt have that courage. Let's face it.
05-09-2007, 11:31 AM
I think I represent a lot of ex members who regard the 'ex-ex LHL Movement' as overwrought and self-important.
I realize my point of view is out of the 'mainstream' as far as the majority here. But gosh, do you have to treat the minority like old-time LaRouchies would? browbeating and castigating those with a slightly different take on things and insisting those who don't see that LHL is the devil on earth are themselves apostates. or just 'blocking.'(?)
I never said LHL shouldn't be exposed, just that Dennis King may not be the best point man for the job, for pretty obvious reasons. You charge that LHL "killed" people, and seem so confident in making that claim. I agree people who are (or have grown) depressed, who are sick and tired or even possibly mentally ill, are at risk for suicide, particularly if they don't have any support system -- loving friends, family, a chance to get treatment or medication. If they are in a hellish trap with little resources or funds or options, it's pretty awful. But they signed up for that life. We all did, at one point. Why are they considered only victims while LHL is the monster?
05-09-2007, 12:08 PM
Boomerang, I never said that larouche killed jeremiah or ken (please read my posts)! I agree members or exmembers are not just victims, (as I said in an earlier post), they were screwed and screwed others as well
They screwed themselves
I also agree with you there is a danger of repeating the "old larouchian patterns", that is instead of veneering him as god, to attack him as the devil incarnate, which he isn't obviously!!! He is not important and will end up in some history books as an insignificant bizarre American political figure. My point is not larouche, it is about his present and potential future victims. He s got away with jeremiah's and ken's deaths and soon will get away for good once dead but his cult will try to survive him. D king's appeal might not be the best solution, so what s your suggestion (if any)?
05-09-2007, 04:19 PM
You are right, you didn't say that; Eaglebeak did. I'm not sure of the proper format here, are you supposed to respond to the last person who spoke or just in general?
Anyway, I agree with you, my ex Larouchie brother, that it is a sad way to spend even an hour of one's day, to sit in Larouche church. I don't think LHL "got away" with these deaths, though, I believe they have had a grave impact on those who remain in his orbit. But short of outlawing cults, I really don't have a solution. I guess the best option I can come up with is: stay close to your children, if you have any. Make sure they have someone to talk to, to back them up, to come home to. Try to understand their quests, their desires for self fulfillment. These LHL sites which talk about him and elevate him, I am afraid just give his security people something to hang their hats on. I don't think they get through to the 'rank and file' boomers. Do you?
05-09-2007, 06:31 PM
well, that is an interesting point...there are over a thousand posts here, most of which - maybe all of which - i've read...i don't recall any ex-member crediting the information they found here as having been a major factor in their leaving the organization...and i would like to see people talking about how they came to be disenchanted with the organization, and what caused them to leave...
meanwhile, did anyone here notice that during the recent democratic debates, kucinich called for cheney's impeachment - just like whatsisname has been doing for well over a year now...
before i finish, please let me congratulate you, xlcr, for the bit of satire you posted on 5/4...
really cracked me up...}
05-10-2007, 10:51 AM
As for whether this post has an impact, I've seen, since I've been a member, that occasionally you get a question from someone who may be coming around the LYM orbit and is trying to find out why certain things get said about LaRouche, or there's a question from a family member who wants to help a friend or family memer who's being recruited. I do agree that if someone is determined to stay in they will simply pass these posts off as complaints from disgruntled ex-members that can't deal with the reality of changing the world in LaRouche's image and dismiss it as the prattling of baby boomers but there are many others who would be deemed soft who would or could be looking for way out. By the way, could anyone imagine what the world would be like if Lyn actually did succeed)? It might make an interesting visionary play or book to picture a LaRouchian world in which only Beethoven and Bach are played, no popular music, no jazz, no rock or rap or folk. Where no modern art is created but we are stuck only rehashing the classics from the past without any hope of creating new forms of art, music, drama, etc. The personality cult for Lyn would probably dwarf that for Stalin or Mao!!!
05-10-2007, 12:17 PM
I've read all the posts thus far; I too spent a few years in the organization and have very mixed feelings about it. First, for anyone to say that Lyn is a non-entity or has negligible political/philosophical effect amounts to pure innocence of fact, or to plain denial. Ideas can resonate. The LYM have been briefing and prodding Kucinich for years now. They obviously moved him to take action/bleat his rant. One might politely ask: how many world parliamentary bodies have YOU addressed; how many world figures have endorsed YOUR candidacies? Lyn's effect is there, small perhaps but persistent. I got in after becoming inspired to assay a World Historical identity, yeah I know, but really, Lyn amd the org were cranking out a lot of intriguing theory in the 90's especially, that's what really brought me in: e.g. reviving Schiller's Universal History angle and his "species consciousness;" Lyn's insistence on physical economy/science-driver economy/infrastructure development; the push to comprehend a monster genius like Gauss, and how he determined asteroid orbits; man as capax dei and imago viva dei; the papers on God and metaphor, Substance of Morality, Jesus Christ and Civilization, America's Manifest Destiny, and such. Sort of an ecumenical theism it seemed, at least on the surface, but with also a lot of depth. It looked like Lyn had modulated up from the early silly stuff, towards a JQ Adams type of American System theorist and figure. Anyway I found the theory intriguing in a provisional way at least and joined up, I had theoretic issues but I put them on holdat least somebody was trying to do something to address the historical question generally.
I wised up to my future as a pack mule for the LYM, saw other unpleasant aspects, and phased out. But I've often thought that for all his faults Lyn is sort of a Least Imperfect Vehicle: clearly there are sillinesses and tawdrinesses, but at least he TRIED, to enunciate and work towards SOME sort of programmatic theory of a future directionality for the human race, with the New Bretton Woods initiative, which has some definite international resonance; his vision of 5,000 next-generation fission plants for the world, fusion-torch technology, &c. There does seem to be a growing discussion, even amongst some mainstream commentators, of a looming financial meltdown; and the US is in any case headed towards fiscal train wreck as the Boomers age, though Lyn doesn't use this formulation to describe "the crisis"which admittedly is perpetual in Lyn's rhetoric, but then again, how ARE we going to move forward out of the mess the world is in? Where are we going; how are we to develop the sort of power needed to e.g, protect the planet from asteroids. The cynically disillusioned herein may say nay thanks, but are you offering up anything, at all, beyond tactical kindnesses? Maybe tactical kindnesses are the most we can do; maybe there is no solution; but people have a right to spend their life's coin as they wish. History isn't stagnant and I give Lyn the right to proffer up ideas and programs, and I give people the right to associate as they wish, to have a say and try to change history by action, even if I find silly or disagree vehemently with much of it. Indeed I find it troubling politically: the anti-Israel animus, on display of late especially in the venomous screeds of Dean Andromidas, and in the insinuations Lyn has publicized to the Muslim world that Israel was behind 9-11; the utter ignorance of the fact that the Koran itself is the source of much Islamic radicalism; the bizarre charge that Galileo and Newton were reactionary puppets of the Venetians; the fatuous Bush=Hitler/ "Chief Justice Roberts is a Nazi!" rants, &c.
05-10-2007, 12:18 PM
I.e., Lyn is quite a mixed bag. It's terribly sad what happened to Ken. Fidelio was a beautiful magazine in every sense; it seemed proof to me that there was something bigger going on with Lyn than mail fraud. Maybe if Lyn had been less of an egomaniac; maybe had the NC's flown coach instead of first-class; maybe had Lyn and Helga lived more frugally; maybe then the members, and the German leadership, could have had some more comforts and securities; but if you choose to orbit a sun, you may get burned. I couldn't take the heat, but those who have given their lives for the glorious cause of a New Renaissance, for a new monetary system, for a vision of a futureand for its enunciatorwell, they have given their lives for it... And I will say this also: 'though I certainly didn't initiate it I helped to get the LYM thing started. Before I got out I was personally involved in organizing some of the cadre schools. The idea that LaRouche's people beat poor Jeremiah to death appears to me so utterly ludicrous as to lend credence to a "Get LaRouche" hypothesis. The cadre schools focus on Lyn's obscure musical aesthetics, on analyzing the catenary curve and various arithmetic/geometric means, and on "becoming world historical." A blame-Israel-first component seems fundamental to Lyn's system, but the idea of beating up potential recruits, would be a laughable allegation if it weren't so weighty in implication. Unless there are/were some really, really bad goons on the Euro staff, which would be a huge surprise to me, I say the explanation lies elsewhere. Why does Dennis King call Helga Lyn's "dog-wife"? Anyone can say Lyn is the merest shyster, charlatan, and con-artist, but isn't the reality more complex? He may indeed be or have been a con artist, but I think he's also on to some important dimensions of history in some provisional, adumbrative way. Thus my ambivalence.
05-10-2007, 03:28 PM
I'm the reporter mentioned above. As some of you know, I am currently writing an article for the Washington Monthly about Ken's life and his relationship with the LaRouche movement.
I encourage anyone with memories of Ken or observations about the Organization to contact me. I promise to respect any terms of confidentiality you propose. I will also be happy to put you in contact with my editor if you would like to confirm my identity. Please Google my name to find some of my earlier publications.
I can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.org
05-11-2007, 02:05 PM
Donebeenaround makes several interesting points, and as I'm sure he would agree, if he read the posts, there were many ideas that originally drew most of us here on the list and that would seem to have some validity, if only they weren't expressed in his consistent World Will End if We don't implement this or that!!! rhetoric. Most members would always say, well, we could get people behind the issue of Fusion, or debt relief in the third world, etc., but Lyn would always have to insist on dragging in some other issue that would cause the person who might be sympathetic on one issue or another away. In other words you have to subscribe to the purity of all his views however ridiculous or illiterate they may be.
The so=called leaders I'm not sure about. The ones in Russia seem to be downright reactionary nationalist restorationists and he seems to have no problem with the authoritarian policies of Putin. In fact, Lyn has no problem with any authoritarian leader per se. Witness his support for the genocidal Sudan gov't, his support for Noriega, Peron, the Saudi gov't, etc. Democracy is not a strongpoint for Lyn, and no matter how valid some of his views may seem they reflect the worst aspects of Plato's philosopher king ideal. To this day, I still support the idea of fusion research, although again Lyn treated it as a catchall, and I have no idea whether the fusion torch will be around in less than another 50 years.
05-11-2007, 07:42 PM
I too was ambivalent for many years after leaving - until I began to reflect on the quality of social life in the LC. Let's assume that everything Lyn says about public and cultural matters is true. Anyone who was an actual Labor Committee member for any length of time must acknowledge that the way he or she was treated was entirely incongruent with the fine ideals everyone thought they were fighting for. In addition, every such member, past or present, knows that lying was a regular, daily practice. For example, everyone has had the experience of being told that we needed money for a particular mobilization, e.g. "getting Lyn on TV." Then we would go out and raise money in the name of one of the front groups, lying that we were fighting to promote nuclear energy or to work in the tradition of FDR when in fact the funds were going into an LC slush fund. So, at the level of one's own experience, one must be forgiven for actually concluding that we were not as virtuous as we thought ourselves, believing, as we did, that the ends justify the means. This however is not an expression of humanism, but represents a culture of criminality. At the second level, of course, is the fact (e.g., see my remarks above on his statements about Einstein) that Lyn lies in his purportedly intellectual work (when he makes any sense at all.) But that realization comes later, as I have found. For now, just interrogate your own actual experience working the phones twelve hours a day, or attending a card-table shrine seven days a week, or sidling slavishly up to people in authority: the ambivalence will begin to vanish.
One further point: often supporters will claim, well, at least Lyn is doing "something." Look around you: many people are doing "something" in this world to make it a better place. They just do it in a much less megalomaniacal way than Lyn and his acolytes. I would further aver: hawking magazines or playing around with recreational mathematics does not change the world. Becoming a good teacher or a doctor does.
Stay in school, kids.
(Message edited by sancho on May 11, 2007)
05-12-2007, 11:52 AM
good polemic, Donebeenaround. You summarize the delusions which attracted many of us to the "academy" LHL was allegedly offering; but your list has no content, the purported "academy" but was more a hall of smoke and mirrors as anyone who starts studying something in earnest discovers. Let me ask you: did you study science in college? beyond college? What was the quality of your 'cadres'? because from what we've seen on Youtube and other places, they look like kids who are barely literate.
05-12-2007, 05:30 PM
Joe6P, I am glad you enjoyed the satire. Now what if I told you that a good bit of that is true?
Here is some great video of the LYM in action
What Lyn does in any type of problem whether it is stealing old people's retirement funds, phony brainwashing capers with his ex wife's lover or fighting over the loot with his people is to release ink like a trapped squid.
The story being given is ridiculous in the real world, but the real world is not the audience. The membership is the audience and where most people have trouble understanding how Lyn works is over a simple concept.
Lyn knows the LC/LYM is a cult and the LC/LYM do not. Consequently, every motion by Lyn is textbook cult/mind control 101. When members leave the LC they often come to the conclusion that the whole thng is not designed to work, but to work on you.
In Leesburg today I think we have a new designation of a member who has been abused and decimated by the LC along with their friends. Even though they have lost everything and have seen 30 to 40 years of their life go up in flames, they refuse to think that Lyn has anything to do with this. I get emails from people who claim that Lyn is the most honest person they know and has been wronged by members who "control" him. Lyn does this thing at every crisis where he says that because he "lives in a cage for security reasons" he did not know what happened.
In the LC the catch phrase we had for deluding ourselves was:
"If only Lyn knew"
Members would think that what was being done to them was not known by Lyn and others. It rained Rheingau at Ibykus Farms while it rained on your head as people breathed in exhaust fumes at intersections raising money to save humanity. The members raised money in the millions and still were told that there was no money for them except a few bucks.
Bunk, as we all use to say. Not one thin dime gets by Lyn as he functions like a cult Godfather and has many people set up at war with each other to vie for his affection. Every totalitarian knows this which is why a Stalin or mao could send people to their deaths while the victims prasied them.
Some of the people in Leesburg I think are Laroucheaholics. They remind me of broken down drunks who know the bottle is killing them but will still drink while their insides are being eroded away until one day it is all gone.
You can show a Laroucheaholic that they are broke, sickly, can't afford to take care of their kids, been abused for decades , had their life span shortened, seen their friends die, been lied to over and over and still not be able to break with Lyn .
I understand that after going through 30 or so years of this it is very hard to admit to yourself that you made a mistake. However, that bit of mental freedom you will get will be a pleasure that has evaded you and is worth more than paying one more ounce of tribute to this Bizarro world.
Lyn did not stop at taking a pound of flesh from you. He took your health, your younger years and then wanted your kids if they escaped the abortion Queen.
A lot of others are busy talking the talk they should have done years ago. What is being found out is not pretty and more of a horrific nightmare which has gone on far too long.
05-12-2007, 10:48 PM
Dbaround, your posts to me at least show why Lyn is more of a calcualating manipulator in a cult of persoanlity than ever. What bothers me is how people who have good hearts and wish to do good have been recruited under their morals and were run around by Lyn's morals. You did what you did at the time thought was a legitmate purpose. You and everyone else who joined had ideals and had basic building blocks of virtue which existed before the LC and exist after the LC. What is often the case is that many former memebrs have done things of incredible magnitude despite what was done to them and despite losing years under Lyn's cult of personality.
What happens is that as you enter the world of Lyn you forgoe a connection to everything which is available to you and become more insular as time goes on. This then becomes a transformation where nothing you talk or think about is said without a Larouche prefix attached to it.
This no accident and I will use my experience to show you how it evolved.
My first contact with the LC was in the 1970s while in High School. I was a teenager who was not sure of a lot of things but was sure that a lot of things needed to change. What I am hearing from the LC is a call for fusion power and economic growth and conern with starvation in developing countries. I was interested in this and found that the people I spoke to were a little odd, but were not dope heads and liked classical music. To me, this was an ideal local club to work with and I soon found out that they were an international organisation. Wow! I now had what I thought was an opportunity to change the world and do it in way that would be done soon. The LC lit back then was titled "Strategy for Socialism" and the paper called "New Solidarity" seemed like a crazy tabloid that followed the Rockefellers instead of Elvis and Bigfoot each week. In my mind, I was going to college and figured that I could just work with the Nuclear p ower stuff as we had a front group called the Fusion Energy Foundation. In the local rundown office were more shabbily dressed people and I joked that I wanted to make sure this was not a cult and looked for pictures of Larouche who was then calling himself "Lyn Marcus" on the walls.
On the walls were maps of the area and things like plant gate shift changes and another room called "The War room". For a teenager like me, this seemed serious. I saw what I wanted to see and read what I wanted to read. The papers and magazines had crazy stories about CIA/MI5brainwashing members like Chris White. Wild stories about forced relocation of workers for slave labor and how Rockefeller was ruling the world. I shoudl have ran away as fast as I could, but, I wanted a reason why the world was the way it is and the LC gave me every reason and would and could explain anything in the world with their methodology.
Ok, it seems nuts, but at the time, it seemed like the only thing which wanted to take on everything. So I figured since no one else had so many targets , than maybe this is the way to get things done. Little did I know how things work in changing people. When I thought of cult I thought of the traditional Moon or Krishna cult. Decades after i left the LC I began to read up on cults and found that the whole LC and Larouche was basically follwoing a standard cult blue print with a political twist.
05-12-2007, 10:50 PM
In the LC and in Larouche World you have to have basic principals to formulate your thinking. You need to have not just a problem, but massive and neverending problems of apoclyptic proportions. problems so big that they are not just problems, but things which will end humanity. The endless catastrophe you as a member face is to change you, not for you to change it. You may think that you are , but in a cult of personality, only a messianic figure, a special person who is above all of the members like a Moon or Larouche or any other figure knows what to do and needs you to do it.
You also need to empty your heart of compassion and fill it up with hate. Pure hate of everything which is not supporting you in your endless end of the world battle to save humanity. Now, it is not enough to support nuclear power. You now demand it. you now say that unless it is developed, humanity will die. Now the people who oppose nuclear power are not people who are concerned with engineering concerns, taxpayer concerns, security concerns but part of the conspiracy to kill off the human race of excess people. Lyn will provide you with an encyclopedia of names and orgs and foundations who are part of this. Now you are at the point where if someone talks about being concerned about fresh air and water and reducing toxic waste, they are an enemy of the human race and your enemy.
I can go to almost any subject the LC and Lyn writes about and it will end up that way. Even with this, people in the FEF had some respect as they had degrees and did no talk like maniacs. they had a life where they could interview people, write articles and produce a magazine that did not look half bad.
For Lyn, it was real bad. It was bad because in a cult of personality, Lyn is the focus, nothing else. So in the early 1980s, Lyn issued a memo which made clear that unless your activity involved him, it was not allowed. The way it was worded was very clever in that it demanded that persuing the Larouche presidency was the only thing and every front group and publication had to support that.
You liked the Fidelio magazine. Ever wonder why it was not mailed out and promoted? Ken Kronberg created that and tried to make it something which was not crazy. There are reports of endless tirades by Lyn against Ken for trying to do that. The blood vessels would pop in Lyn's head as he denounced Ken as a boomer over and over and then ended it with a demand for endless printing with out a single thought of how to pay for this. Oh, let me correct that. .There was a single thought , it was called have someone else run up a debt for supplies and have the members do it for nothing.
Don't be scared of this political scam artist. I saw him cower like a baby on the Morton Downey show when he was confronted with his own words about Jews and others. He babbled "shut up, shut up" . The people there were not naive college kids who were intimidated by a 6 foot 5 father figure to members who often had father issues.
05-12-2007, 10:52 PM
When I came to the National office I figured out somethiungs and was told a lot by people who were leaving. In every case, a member who had a one on one meeting with Lyn dropped out the next day or so as they realised Lyn was bonkers. The cult master has no clothes folks. His reading is basically done by looking at the cover, jackets a chapter and then , now this is important, a summary by the staff. In NYC we had a dozens of people who knew a lot of things and did research. A guy named Peter Rush did a prioject where he took as many papers done by members and indexed them in a library of sorts. What caem of that was an embarassment of sorts. it seemed that if you looked at any of Lyn's writings you figure out the formula. You take a subject of current politcal value like Ted Kennedy. You then link him to what ever is the main fundraising issue such as a KGB/Russian takeover of the world. you now take one of those research papers and find the key thesis and link it to that. So the end is a centerfold article where about two paragraphs mention Kennedy, more pragraphs mention some historical situation adn then you fill it up with the standard 5000 years of conspiracy, throw in Aristotle and then some new tid bit the poor LCer found and declare it a magnum opus that needs to be put out in a pamphlet or book for the masses. Read enough of this and you too can write this stuff for the LC. The poor LCer who did the long hours of work in the library does not even get a footnote and ends up cooing for Lyn's wink instead of yelling that his or her hard work was stolen by this charlatan. The standard MO for us is that the phone organiser would make some issue sound reasonable so he would not be hung up. Once you snet them some of our lit, forget it. We would try hard to NOT have Lyn do meetings with our contacts because of how they would end up with Lyn demanding that they bankroll him or some crazy statement about the Queen of England or such.
In most cases when the phone calls were no longer being returned, Lyn would write about how so and so was harrassed by Henry Kissinger or the KGB to not work with him.
For myself I can tell you that I read about fusion power years before I met the LC. I read about plasma torches years before I met the LC and did a science project in the 5th grade about this. You can look up the GE corporation and see a division they have in joint projects with other companies. I read about maglevs years before the LC made it somethng to impress you with. What is important is that the issues or the technology exist without a cult and get produced without a cult. When I was in I wanted to be part of an org which wanted to support somethiung called the McKormick bill for Fusion funding in congress. Years later we were told that to get fusion power we need to have 20 airports manned with card table shrines each day with aquota of 300 dollars per table .
Star Trek existed way before Lyn's cult and has fostered more dreamers and creators than a gazillion Fusion and 21st Century magazines. We used to have a little science hand out called "Young Scientist". When we tried to make it a non Lyn publication and get class rooms to use it. Unless Lyn was in it, forget it. Heaven help an LC couple who wanted to rasie their kids as young scientists. Lyn demanded that if your kids survived the abortion pressure, than he wants those kids manning card table shrines for HIM.
05-12-2007, 10:58 PM
Lyn wants YOU to raise money for HIM to promote mars. Former member Bob Zubrin runs an organisation called "The Mars Society" which does real work. His books are best sellers and not given a quota of cheap newsprint copies to be given away. Zubrin has and is seen almost monthly in every science journal there is, on TV news shows, TV specials and has been invited to the White House to be awarded for his work. He holds several patents on rocket science.
Lyn waits for Henry Kissinger to come out of a men's room at a White House Press club dinner to have his photo taken with him while mesmerising him with his delusions. Kissinger probably thought the Foe gras was contaminated and made him ill.
There is nothing new being told to the LYM or your self that we have not heard Lyn do before. The speeches you heard when you joined are the saem ones we heard except with a new cast of characters. The phrases are the same.
Us Jimmy Carter worse than Hitler
You Al Gore Worse than Hitler.
Us Impeach Carter
You Impeach Cheney
Us Give money to stop KGB
You Give money to stop Synarchists
US Methadone pushed by Nuremburg Criminals
You Video games pushed by Nuremburg Criminal.
Us The world economy is going to crash.
You The world economy is going to crash.
US We are in a depression.
You We are in a depression of the physical economy.
Us Rockefeller runs the world
You British and the Jews run the world.
Most of us were in when the LC made the transformation from Rocky to the British and the Jews running the world. Most of us left.
Us 3 Mile Island was a hoax to eliminate people.
You Global warming is a hoax to eliminate people.
Us Chris White brainwashing done by Rock to stop the ICLC from taking power. Hoax by Lyn.
You Duggan death, hoax done by Cheney to stop LYM from taking power.
Us David Rockefeller and his family run the world and all that is evil.
You Cheney and his wife run the world and all that is is evil.
Us Leesburg Real Estate collapse will bankrupt the banks when people can not pay the notes.
You Lyn does not pay the notes on LC real estate to the banks and our people collapse.
Us Supporting Solar power is stupid and won't work.
You Supporting solar power is evil and will kill off humanity
Let me give you a little clue of how crazy the LC/LYM is . One of our members in the LA region left in the 1990s. The only thing I think he knew to work with when he left was roofing. He started his own business in LA and began to grow as a roofing contractor. Later, he developed a roof system which used new solar panels for power generation. His company is now the leading developer of solar panel roofs and has been recognised in many articles and in the Wall Street Journal. Business which use his system .The buildings which he installed this can now sell power back to the grid which feeds the Glendale LYM office for LYM jabronis to HATE solar power.
(Message edited by xlcr4life on May 13, 2007)
05-12-2007, 11:00 PM
Lyn has a new spin now since we have shown his broken record briefings to the yutes. Today the line is that he tells yutes that he is not predicting a crash but is trying to prevent it.! There is nothing new to say hear. All of us were pretty young when we joined and wised up later. Most people restarted their lives and have done incredible things. In the LC you are told over and over that no one is doing anything. You are alone, trying to save the planet from enemies who do not know they are enemies.
Debt has always been an issue in the developing world. Enroll in any third world study class in college in the 1960s and it was a big part of the curriculum. Lyn is the only one who declared a debt moratorium . he did it aganist the members and and supporters by borrowing money and not paying it back.
Lyn declared a debt moratorium on PMR and see what happened there. Bono of U2 has been more successfull in promoting debt relief and he only wants you to buy their records, shirts and conccert tickets instead of joining a Bono cult.
I posted my "moral resume" here last year. As a free person I go to meet with my congressmen, elected officials like the mayor and others, the previous governor and present governor of my state and discuss issues like child care, energy and health policy. This is not some big deal if you call up , make an appointment and discuss this with them in either their office or open meetings. no one is cutting off my mike and rolling their eyes when I speak. I do not litter their offices with cult crazed fanzines and instead contribute to promoting bills and providing input on how it may effect families in their district.
Yes, things are better in many places where I choose to help, not hate.
If you want to see what 35 years of the LC and worshipping Lyn will get you, take a look at this video.
After the intro you will see the LA office NC named Phil Rubinstein give a briefing to a few people in a shabby office just like the one I entered 3 decades ago with mismatched chairs and a stink in it. This particular NC is notorious for doing anything Lyn demanded when it comes to sacrificing members to feed a Club Ibykus party. The temper on his part is probably justifiable to a degree. I think he dropped out of John Hopkins at age 17 to join the LC. He was brilliant enough to be considered for a Rabbincal education, but not smart enough to recognise that he was selling copies of the Dope Inc book with The Protocals of The Elders of Zion as a chapter. He saw all of his Jewish friends leave in disgust when Lyn and Security were circulating the infamous "Jew Jokes" in the LC. He accepted Lyn as his saviour when Lyn began issuing his Holocaust Gospels in New Solidarity in the late 1970s.
Each briefing you hear on the LYM web site starts off with how we are building a movement. After 35 years he has seen almost everyone he knows drop out or die and still fears facing the fact that all his posturing, chair throwing don't mean a thing. He can read in the briefing a few days ago where Lyn says LA is a problem. . Based on the track record of Lyn, the boomer pogrom is heading West.
05-12-2007, 11:12 PM
The funniest thing tonight while I am posting this is that I flipped on the TV and channel surfed to The Science Channel. There, I quickly said OMG! A one hour brand new program is on which features incredible graphics about a mission to Mars featuring Bob Zubrin!
Catch it next time on Tuesday May 15th from 6 to 7 PM.
Zubrin is on high quaility TV documentary about sendng a mission to Mars while poor Phil is telling the boiler room that they have to hit quota or can't go home for the 10,950th time. Here is some Larouche Math. Throw tantrum in boiler room to send Lyn money to save humanity 365 x 30 years = 10,950
Consider your time a short one compared to many. What goes in life is a never ending give and take among people. Your morals and standards and family deserve your energy and time instead of a crafty grifter who has a unique angle to keep him in one field. One can find endless photo ops of gullible and silly politicians with Rev Moon people. It does not make it any less of a cult. Lyn knows it is a cult unlike the people in.
That is his strategic advantage and why most people have very little info about how things work in them.
That's how these things work.
When people post in their own way what they know, others catch on. That is why Lyn issued a memo telling the yutes to not respond to anything on the web. What they do not know does hurt them.
05-15-2007, 10:39 AM
my question for donebeen's certainty that Larouche's people had nothing to do with Jeremiah Duggans death is this: why have they been so hostile to the investigation; why have they attacked his mother and allowed the case to become another one of their paranoid fantasies where the queen/George Schultz et al are attacking them? In short, why are they acting so guilty?
05-15-2007, 04:11 PM
well, they are so hostile thanks to the relentless efforts of Jeremiah's parents and friends. Larouche hoped the "affair" be buried once and for all and get away with it.
As to consider "ludicrous" the fact Jeremiah could have been beaten to death, well it s not a matter of "opinion" anymore i am afraid but the conclusion of several independent experts of international reputation who have studied all the available facts, not some synarchist "get larouche taskforce" to prevent larouche from saving the world.
It doesn't mean Jeremiah's murder was intentional! It means, if proven, that there is a coverup. That s why Jeremiah's parents and friends are asking for a new inquest. The police said it was a suicide but cant prove it or explain contradicting facts. So why not investigate the circumstances surrounding his so called suicide? like say...... the Schiller Institute??? The police "concluded" promptly to a suicide, without a complete investigation of the circumstances of his death. The police wouldnt even tell Jeremiah's parents from which telephone he last called in despair, an hour before his so called suicide! The reality is that he was not suicidal, it was not a suicide, it was not a road accident either so... what option remains? think.
05-15-2007, 04:22 PM
"despair" isnt the best way to describe his last phone calls but, he was definitely confused by all that was said at these conferences and late night discussions and more importantly he said he was "in big trouble"... Despite this, the police wouldnt tell where he was calling from.
05-16-2007, 07:39 PM
An instance of the banality - and insipid blather - of evil:
Pure dementia coupled with a twisted, entirely self-centered heart.
05-16-2007, 08:04 PM
Hey everyone, it's been a year since I left the movement. I still agree with most of larouche's Ideas. Honestly, the only thing that bugged me was the living standards.
05-17-2007, 01:45 AM
<font color="0077aa">Some folks never recover from brainwashing
05-17-2007, 12:54 PM
gatordave can you be more specific with your idea.
05-17-2007, 08:10 PM
Not many people on this post anymore? What happened to xlcr?
05-17-2007, 09:16 PM
Lyn is getting worried:
"Lynne Cheney, John Train and Dennis King: Obsession with LaRouche Reaches New Low
"May 5--Pro-fascist New York investment banker John Train's long time hod-carrier, Dennis King, has launched a scurrilous slander campaign against Lyndon LaRouche. King has posted a series of smears on his website and other internet blogs concerning the recent death of long-time leading LaRouche collaborator Kenneth L. Kronberg. These slanders, along with King's posting of stolen documents, are a distasteful exploitation of a personal tragedy in pursuit of Train's political vendetta against LaRouche and a disrespectful disregard for the memory of Kronberg."
Funny, too, how he can't get it quite right on Jews ...
(1) here's a book review by der Fuehrer in which he tries to laud a Jewish writer:
However, Jews are of value only when they incorporate non-Jewish perspectives into their work; nowhere will one find in any of Lyn's writings the least respect for any aspect of the Tanakh (apart from B're) or rabbinical Judaism or of anything which makes a Jew a Jew. He used to say nice things about Philo - but only because Philo happens to have been soaked in Plato. As a Roman Catholic, I know how offensively Lyn tries to give that tradition his own peculiar stamp, for it too is of value to him only when expressive of his own gnosticism which he mislabels Platonism. But, so far as I know, no Catholics die on freeways in his organization, only Jews.
(2) in attacking hedge funds, he persists in using the term "locusts," a classically antisemitic term:
How many Jews have to die to satisfy this monster's hatred of not only them as individuals, but of Yiddishkeit as a whole?
05-17-2007, 10:58 PM
Yeah, I noticed that and smiled in mirth at "other internet blogs" because... so far as I can tell... there are only two actual blogs which have concerned itself with Kronberg, meaning that I am, operate a gutter outlet controlled by Wall Street Fascist John Train. As is the one which references that Star Trek actor. What a weird world.
I like the use of the words "stolen documents".
For anti-semitism, I'm most bemused by the word "synarchist" -- which seems to be a synonym for International cabal, used to describe Felix Royatyn, who is an Investment banker and Holocaust survivor. Hence parce out this sentence from one of his pamphlets:
Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean turned to the upper 3 percent of family income brackets for financial support and notably the cronies of bankers and synarchist Felix Rohatyn. The lower 80 percent are basically ignored.
And he's saying that Larouche needs to take the Democratic Party away from its current control of the wealthy International Jewish Conspiracy.
What happened to xlcr?
I saw him posting to a post at some college campus-related site, arguring with current Larouchians under the guise of "Lyn Marcus". I can't find the link anymore, which is a shame because I posted a question "Do you know where he picked up the name Lyn Marcus?" and I'd like to see if anyone answered my answer.
05-18-2007, 04:09 AM
LaRouche's antipathy for Judaism and Jews has always been a theme--go check out the so-called Feuerbach Campaigner, part of the notorious Beyond Psychoanalysis series (Feuerbach published December 1973 or January-February 1974 or thereabouts), and check out his comments in that on the "Jewish question," in which he basically calls Judaism a parasitical degraded derivative of medieval Christianity, at best.
Or note his affection all those years ago for the repellent phrase devised by Karl Marx, "dirty-judaical." That showed up a lot in LaRouche-land. He hates Judaism, although he will tolerate individual Jews like Paul Goldstein and Jeff Steinberg.
But right now he's engaged in trying to woo back the Jewish members of the organization, a project he's been working on since Fernando Quijano and most of the Catholics were driven out of the org in 2000. Especially after Kronberg's death--so that's the point of that stupid book review.
Please note in the book review that the only thing he actually cites is from the introduction--standard LaRouche approach. That means he read the introduction. Chances are excellent he didn't read much more.
05-18-2007, 04:15 AM
In the book review, the references to Sholem Aleichem and the Workman's Circle suggest that Kronberg is haunting LHL. Kronberg was the one who started all the work in the org on Sholem Aleichem et al. and the Yiddish Renaissance, and Kronberg used to talk about the Workman's Circle and his family's activities in that (including the Jewish school he went to on Saturdays).
05-18-2007, 09:04 PM
jmp87, a lot of ex members have been reading this forum since there is a link at
www.kennethkronberg.com (http://www.kennethkronberg.com) and
What a lot of people tell me is that the registration process here is somewhat slow and they fear the cult stalking them. Please, there are numerous anti stalking laws to protect you and the phone company will help you with hang up calls. A lot of things have changed in 25 years and you are dealing with a convicted cult of ex cons who have been sued for impersonating people in a few courts.
The only person who should be fearing for his safety is Al Gore who is being elevated to a new super villain status in the cult crazed fanzines the LYM give away since they can't be sold. If anyone has any doubts of how Lyn whips up a chanting cult to a wild eyed foaming at the mouth jabronis, just ask a LYM to show you the daily briefings they recieve.
WOW. Most of the briefing is cut and paste from web news hilights with Lyn's delusions holding it together. The best description is that it is like one of those high presure prospectus you get from a boiler room commodity scam operation with endless doom unless you give them money to invest for you. Cross that with some cheap late night TV preacher barker who tells you that the world is going to end and you have an EIRNS slug.
Take that and add a 4 in the morning transmission of Lyn's babbling about Babylon with an impeach Cheney spritzer and you have the next LPAC pamphlet.
Since I left over two decades ago my time is basically taken up by things which adults do which is balance your life over family, work, fun and interests. When ex members find that they are expecting children they go to a pediatrician instead of Nancy Spannaus. After your kids are born, most people sacrifice their time to spend with their kids and their school work and other activities.
The cargo cult of Lyn has been patiently awaiting the total collapse of the economy for 40 years now. Most of us who left decades ago have seen long term growth in our savings and investments. This requires time to study and allocate our resources. In Leesburg you have people who cling to Lyn with the hope that some table scraps from Windy Hill will fall their way. This is so sad, yet funny to watch. LC members think that the weekly expenses on the budget control Lyn where in nfact it is the other way around. Some people are so far gone they think that the 2K a week under "carpet" was for regular carpet steam cleaning at Windy Hill and the Sycolin building!
05-18-2007, 09:43 PM
Since these LCers cling to this cargo cult in Leesburg and think that Robert Beltran's acting classes show how "we are taking power", this hit me one night. Since Beltran was on the Star Trek series and these LCers and LYM still cling to Lyn's delusions, they can be called
If you run into a claimed former LCer or LYM who after learning , reading and being a victim of the cult still has not caught on, I guess they are the Clingons of Deep Spaced Larouche.
Another thing which keeps us busy is that many of us own our homes and other real estate. Our criteria for life is how many rooms per family member instead of how many LYM per room. Most LCers are renters and usualy deadbeats by design. Those who do own homes usually have mortgaged them for the LC. The LYM copy old college fraternity gimmicks like how many people can fit into a phone booth. This time, the yutes carefully study geometry to see how many LYM can fit into a flat. 4 to a one bedrom used to be the norm till high rent LA hit 8. Paris won the title last month with 20 !!! LYM to an apt. Cheminade was proud as he proved that he had the best working economic plan as a Presidential candidate to solve the housing shortage.
During one of our presidential runs, I think 1984 I was listening to another fire and brimstone briefing about how real estate will collapse to a nickle on the dollar. Being a well meaning but naive yute I shyly asked the following.
"Since we know that the real estate market will be collapsing to this degree, shouldn't we be putting away money into a fund so we can buy a lot of property like office buildings and apt buildings for ourselves when it happens?"
Lord have Mercy was I on the S**t list for suggesting that. After a slight delay the office briefing was now updated to include how the New Dark Ages would be upon us in a cataclysmic orgy of a billion human deaths with an accompanyment of pot smoking, AIDS infected Aristotelian anti nuke yuppies who would be speaking Russian and taking orders from both the Queen and the Russian Orthodox Church.
The NYC jet set had Club 54 for escapism and we had Club Ibykus for LC escapism. Just think yutes, several years from now you too will have memories of what pushed you back into the real world. The only reason we post here is so you do not blow your whole twenty's life in this nightmare and do real things with real orgs and people.
Ask the man who knows a cult.
With all of this going on as well as work and getting things accomplished , the time I have for this gets cut. I do have a lot of things in the can as the fundamental law of the universe is that after you leave the LC/LYM, you will learn more about them .
The posts by eaglebeak are very interesting. Almost all of the Jewish members left in the 1980s except for a handfull. The word used by Helga and many others to describe where money and Jewish names come together to plot is "locusts". It seems to be word used in Europe and the Mid East a lot. It often pays to go back and reread some of her campaign lit to see things again when you know that.
05-19-2007, 12:00 AM
The LYM and the obsession of "doubling the cube":
quote: "Archytus performed a Promethean act, when he discovered a Sphaerics-guided solution to the life-and-death paradox of doubling the cube. For Archytus, that solution lies not in the visible domain of the cube itself, but belongs to a higher domain, where human creativity dances with universal principles, what Gauss has since called the complex domain."
Well, when the LYM-ers live 10 to 20 packed in one single flat, NO WONDER they feel that DOUBLING the square/cube is a "life-and-death paradox"!!! Why do they have to live like hens? A paradox indeed that only god-lhl knows the key of...
Maybe, (just a "creative" idea...) the "Promethean act" would be to take this key and simply leave... and discover this "higher domain" called the Reality we re all enjoying now
05-19-2007, 05:02 AM
The LaRouche org's use, especially in Germany, of "locust fund" as a characterization of hedge fund definitely has anti-Semitic roots--and to judge from the press is catching on more broadly in Germany, among others beyond the handful of LaRouchies left there.
In the indictment at the post-World War II Nuremberg trials of Julius Streicher, the notorious editor of Der Stuermer, one of the passages from Der Stuermer cited compared the Jews to hordes of locusts--this was a popular image in Germany under the Nazis, and now among a few Germans and crazed American ex-pats under Helga.
According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, anti-Israel Arabs throughout the Mideast routinely use the term "locusts" to describe Jews.
[Interestingly, in the U.S., just at the time in the mid to late 1980s that LaRouche was trying to insinuate himself into the Catholic Church (unsuccessfully, of course), the Jews in the org, at least in Leesburg, were having virtually underground Passover and Hannukah celebrations, suddenly discovering or re-discovering themselves as Jews. Kronberg was one of the leaders in this.]
Anyhow, the use of "locusts" is telling--but after all, Helga is the moron who once declared (late 1970s) at a New York Regional Meeting that "in Germany we don't have this problem with the ADL" (meaning Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, which attacked LHL as anti-Semitic).
Even the most zombified members gasped at that one. They don't have a "problem with the ADL in Germany" because almost all the Jews there were exterminated--wow, Helga! Could she be any stupider or more vicious?
05-19-2007, 07:54 AM
One element of LaRouche's antisemitism within the organization of course is simply that any attention to anything - including God - takes attention away from him. Lyn must always be the 100% focus of everyone at all times, otherwise they are "agents." This town ain't big enough for both him and God. A seder or a Mass makes the ugly duckling feel shut out and unloved: he then retaliates. Ken was not giving every cent to Lyn, nor all his faith to him, therefore he was hated by Lyn and Papert.
You made a good observation about Lyn's book review method: read only the introduction (if that) and then use it as a springboard from which to crazily pontificate, free-association style. That's why when he attempt's to express ideas, especially in science or mathematics, he substitutes concepts with names (bad guys get the epithet "evil" prefixed.) Thus, LaRouche's Law: the greater the density of personal names within a LaRouche paragraph, the greater his ignorance of the putative subject under discussion. (I can only imagine Paolo Sarpi, wherever he is, wondering: what did I ever do to this guy?) Even when a member I was convinced that Lyn had never read Dante, except perhaps in Monarch Notes. I bet that once he kicks people will find Monarch Notes within the floorboards for Plato, Leibniz, etc. It took me very long to discover that he is as ignorant and unintelligent as he is evil. The business dealings of the World's Greatest Economist since Methuselah in Leesburg are further proof of that.
05-19-2007, 10:29 AM
This idea of the descent of the locusts is fascinating as it really does reflect the deep seated anti-semitism of Helga. I was googling locusts and found about five speeches and articles where Helga especially refers to banks like Lazard Freres and of course banker Rohaytan as the locusts descending upon Germany. It struck me as being very similar to Hitler's invectives against the international bankers that destroyed Germany after WWI.
And it does seem that the term locusts is being used in a broader fashion in Germany beyond LaRouche and the ELP or whatever they call themselves now. Witness the following site where the term is used to describe hedge funds that are mythically destroying German industry: http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-markovits-s06.htm
05-19-2007, 10:37 AM
For more insight on the Helga issue the following from 2006 again seems like a screed that could have come straight out of Mein Kampf for blaming German's alleged economic straits on the Jewish bankers.
I also post the following which may be a bit extreme, but references many of the anti-semitic images used by the Nazis in brainwashing their youth, terms like locust, bedbugs, parasites are all there. I doubt that Helga is unaware of the usage since she is such a partisan of German culture.
05-19-2007, 06:08 PM
I have to say that this allegation that Larouche is Antisemitic is absurd. They're attacking for example Felix Rohantyn, not because of his ethnicity or religious beliefs, but because of the economic policies he had been a part of. Rohatyn's Big Mac policy in New York for example is a huge reason why there are districts in that area that have the living conditions of a third world country. It doesn't matter whether the person is blue,green, orange, whatever. If a person is going to conduct policies that kill people the person is evil. That's all that larouche is saying.
05-19-2007, 06:14 PM
Another fallacy that is stated here commonly is that the organization only claim that the British and Jewish people are enemies. That is simply not true. The two biggest flanks by the movement right now are to remove Dick Cheney (an American: Not British, Not Jewish) from office, and to prevent the congress from being duped by Al Gore(Once again, an American, Not Jewish, Not British).
05-19-2007, 06:20 PM
And to regards to the allegations of there being Antisemitic jokes in the office. I have a feeling that you guys might be flat out making the story up. I was in the office for 7 months and there was absolutely no offensive jokes to any nationality in any form or way.
05-19-2007, 10:29 PM
Trust me, jmp87, we're not making the story up. Back in the late 1970s/early 1980s, New Solidarity (predecessor paper to New Federalist) ran a remarkably offensive joke in its "6th column" "humor column" about a stripper using yarmulkes as pasties or whatever they're called. Really disgusting.
Longtime member Stephanie Ezrol went so far as to write a letter of complaint to the editor of New Solidarity. Immediately, Paul Goldstein started an "investigation" of her--including interviewing the present writer (who told him the joke was anti-Semitic).
If you were new to the org in the recent period, then you probably didn't hear such jokes. Things changed a lot over the last 28 years or so, and after all the flak they got for being genuinely anti-Semitic, they figured out that maybe it wasn't so smart to tell jokes or carry on about Jews all the time.
In other words: Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it isn't true. You're just not that familiar with the organization. You were in the office 7 months, I was there for more than 30 years.
05-19-2007, 10:37 PM
jmp87, if you are a former LYM member then you were probably not even born when we began secret meetings with Willis Carto and his Libery Lobby group with Lyn and security. This began a non stop lovethon between the org and several outright anti semitic or Jewish baiting groups . The love affair continued with LC material shoiwng up in the Nation of Islam outfit with a pretty nasty NOI leader I think referencing EIR in his speeches.
There is an edition of Dope Inc which included as a chapter a reprinting of The Protocals of the Elders of Zion in it. "A kernel of truth" was our slogan .
Read Lyn's own words from that 1978 edition.
"The Czarist Okhrana's Protocols of Zion include a hard kernel of truth which no mere Swiss court decision could legislate out of existence. The fallacy of the Protocols of Zion is that it attributes the alleged conspiracy to Jews generally, to Judaism. A corrected version of The Protocols would stipulate that the evil oaths cited were actually the practices of variously a Paris branch of B'nai B'rith and the evidence the Okhrana turned up in tracing the penetration of the Romanian branch of B'nai B'rith (Zion) into such Russian centres of relevance as Odessa...
In the late 1970s we had a few centerfolds by Lyn on how the Holocaust was only a portion of the 6 million figure. We danced around that saying that only maybe 1.5 million were killed while the rest were worked to death. This is important because Carto and friends are involved in the Holocaust revision wackyness. here are many web sources with the LC and Lyn's quotes on the Jews. One place there is not is the LYM web site you looked at for years. The notorious "Zionist" Campaigner where a lot fo this comes from was removed a while back when perhaps too many people were downloading it.
I am going to deliberately not use any King wrting here, just what was apparent in the LC as this continued. You see that as this continues the next step for the membership was to rethink German history and forgive Nazis. Sounds crazy but that is what we did as WW2 was rewritten by us and now Hitler was a British project and Jews were involved with that. Helga was big on that as we were starting a German version of our electoral campiagns called "Patriots for Germany". Among our supporters were a few real old WW2 German officers or soldiers. At the same time the FEF began to write glowing articles about Penemunde and Nazi rocket Scientists. I can say that never in the LC did I hear about how these "German Patriots" used slave labor for their facilities.
We went even further in attacking a NYC official named Liz Holtzman as a Lesbian in leaflets. Her crime against Lyn was working in the US Justice Dept which was tracking down old Nazis who were in the USA by misleading immigration with a false history.
You can look up Larouche and Zayed center and see what that place represents in the Mid East.
We began lawsuits which ended with something worthy of a Bizarro world cult. The members were whipped up into a frenzy against the ADL as being part of the Titanic struggle against humanity. Somehow, very few people figured out that if write a lot of crazy things about Jews and are friendly with hard core antisemites, then Jewish groups will worry about you.
So we were sent to march agaisnt the ADL and of course fundraise for the legal suits. I think in 1978 Lyn sued the ADL for being called anti semitic. The judge dismissed the suit and I think said that it was fair comment to call us that. You know what happened next of course? The judge was part of the conspiracy while the evidence used to make the fair comment decision I think was what Lyn wrote!
05-19-2007, 10:39 PM
Later in 1984 we decided to burn through a coupleof hundred thousand and launch more suits including one against NBC, Berlet, King and Irwin Suall of the ADL. Suall called Lyn a "Small time Hitler". In the end we had another decision worthy of a Bizarro world cult. Not only did we lose the case agaisnt calling Lyn a Small time Hitler, but we were ordered to pay 3 million in damages to NBC! That was reduced but I doubt anything was paid. Lyn often bragged that he would never pay anything and that may be one of the reasons why you never find anything in his name.
Helga got into the game when there was lot of news about a made for TV movie about the Holocaust in 1979.
"Whereas nobody in the USA has the slightest illusions concerning the power which the Zionist lobby exerts especially upon the current administration, in Germany only a few political persons in the know are aware of the influence of a more secretly operating undercover Zionist lobby, but not the German public. And therefore we must take the hypocritical bogus Holocaust-spoof as an occasion to get rid of these foreign agents. ("Der zionistische Holocaust heute ("The Zionist Holocaust today"), Neue Solidarität, January 25, 1979). "
What was being presented to us in a gradual buildup was the concept that German collective guilt for the things like Nazism, WW2, the Holocaust and the destruction of Europe was not problem for the Germans to feel a bit remorseful about. Instead, blame it all on the British and eventually you get ot the point where you can blame the Jews for Nazis. Seems crazy , but I have read a few Mid East conspiracy kook articles over the years which support that.
Do not expect to find and Hitler portraits in Larouche offices. There are more than enough of Lyn to go around. Between the self named youth corp, the German fraulein and a basement instead of a bunker, how does a person come to conclude that maybe we truly have an anti semitic/Brtish cult on our hands?
The real genius just may be a comic book writer named Howard Chaykin. In 1984 he wrote a series called American Flagg. In it he has a panel which has our original org called the US LABOR PARTY . The drawing has USLP soldiers in gas masks emerging from caves and being an anti Semitic/British cult! If anyone has a scan of that, please send it to me.
As far as you seeing Jewish memebrs who complain about the antisemitism, they all left 20 years ago. Here is a description from former members Alice and Donny Roth
This is from the King web site ,
but is found in other places.
(Message edited by xlcr4life on May 20, 2007)
(Message edited by xlcr4life on May 20, 2007)
05-19-2007, 10:45 PM
Two of the dissidents, Donald and Alice Roth, immediately dashed off a letter announcing their resignation from NCLC:"The memos of Lyndon H. LaRouche," they wrote, "are a hideous, moral abomination....It was bad enough that LaRouche should echo the words of a known Nazi sympathizer, Willis Carto, cynically dismissing the true horror of the Nazi holocaust with the argument that 'only' one and a half million Jews died. Much, much worse is the fact that LaRouche was too small a person to admit his mistake and retract that damaging statement, but instead sought to wallow in its reaffirmation. That reaffirmation was the sign of a mind which has become dangerously ill...."
The Roths followed up with a more detailed letter analyzing the relationship between bigotry and brainwashing in NCLC. The letter cited, as a prime case, how NCLC members are "subjected to sick 'Jewish' and other 'ethnic jokes.'" (Example given: "How many Jews can you fit into a Volkswagen?" "One hundred. Four on the seats and ninety-six in the ashtray.")
According to the Roths, LaRouche's use of such jokes "has been an important tool for psychological manipulation of the membership." The jokes, the Roths charged, help to generate self-hate among Jewish party members, as part of a process by which members are psychologically "bludgeoned" into rejecting their parents and their previous values.
The entire process had resulted in a "moral anaesthetization," the Roths recalled, so that NCLC members became "capable of taking political actions which violated their most basic sense of morality."
The resignation of the Roths from NCLC was followed by that of Computron executive Paul Teitelbaum (among others). Ten days before resigning, Teitelbaum wrote an "NCLC Internal Discussion Document" which gives a vivid picture of the totalitarian atmosphere inside the party.
"Some time ago," Teitelbaum recalled, "[LaRouche] returned from an extended stay in Europe and gave a public presentation in New York. Some of our German members were present. At the end of the speech, the claque initiated the chant of 'Lah'Rouche, Lah'Rouche, Lah'Rouche, Lah'Rouche....' My reaction at this and all subsequent occasions is difficult to describe. Suffice it to say that one's hair really does stand up on one's neck...."
Teitelbaum concluded with a demand that LaRouche "be suspended from all policy and decision making functions in the organization, for his, own good and for the good of the human race." If the NCLC membership should fail to implement this demand, Teitelbaum said, "then the characterization of the organization as fascist will become irrevocable, with all that you know that this implies."
Just spend some time looking up "Larouche and anti semitism" and other key words and you will find a lot of non King material if that bothers people.
The final thing to think about is that in the LC, the Jew has been beaten out of people like other things over the years. The people you se are what I call Lyn's "Trojan Jews". They will gladly say "Well I am Jewish and if there was something anti semitic going on, I would be the first to leave".
Oh Please. You are the last ones to leave as you accepted ashtray jokes with out a whimper.
05-20-2007, 04:56 AM
To complete xlcr about Gore and Cheney being american, not jewish or british ... well I m afraid jmp87 doesnt read or understand larouche s own recent literature and the logic behind these campaigns: you are against cheney or gore because they are agents of the SYNARCHISTS, right? (Cheney is called a "synarchist lackey" isnt he?) That s the point. You may disagree with their policies, but calling them evil, nazis, genocidalists etc isnt the same story is it? They are "evil" because they are agents of the synarchists, so larouche and his lackeys say.
So, who/what are these "synarchist forces of evil", these socalled "synarchist financiers"?
Well, to list a few names (read larouche literature again, that ll help): Felix Rohatyn, Georges Soros, André Meyer, Lazard Freres, the Worms family... ALL JEWISH BANKERS.
Other "synarchists", acc to lhl, are jews like Kissinger, M Ledeen, George Mosse, L Strauss, P Wolfowitz, Marc Rich, Joe Lieberman, Richard Perle, L Libby etc etc to name a few.
Larouche calls them "Children of Satan". These are the people Helga Zepp calls "locusts" who aim (according to her) at destroying the German economy. Coincidences? Of course not.
For your information, the "Synarchy" plot/cabal was a conspiracy theory concocted under the pro-Nazi antisemitic French Vichy regime. The center of this "cabal" was the Jewish Banque Worms. Various factions within the Vichy government spread the rumour that the french economy was in the hands of these jewish financiers... Rings a bell? It is similar to the Protocols of the elders of zion, nothing s changed, only the names.
Of course larouche and his lackeys cover their <font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font> by blaiming these Jewish bankers for bringing "... Adolf Hitler to power, and launch World War II, and the crimes that went with it." (quote), so accusing THEM for being nazi genocidalists , larouche is expecting naive people think he is not one... better to accuse than being accused!!! ; larouche's tactic was always to attack as a self-defense... In larouche' s fantasy world of hatred, the jews are traitors, "they" are "agents from babylon", "they" crucified Christ, "they" put Hitler into power, "they" are behind the Dope industry to destroy the US from within (it s all from the Campaigners and books available now online on your wlym website- so no excuses anymore!) and now these "synarchists/locusts", via their "american" agents Gore and Cheney, want to destroy the world (yet again!, it s like a hobby for them i suppose)...
So LYM-ers, start reading larouche's own literature in a more... critical way. Go beyond your daily slogans and headlines. People didnt take Hitler's Mein Kampf too seriously, and paid the price for it. Hitler rose to power thanks to a naive and illiterate Hitler Youth movement too... Larouche doesnt need you to be antisemitic, he only needs you to carry his antisemitic targetted campaigns. The LYM is just an insignificant totalitarian cult that utilises naive and illiterate youths and destroys lives. The LYM-ers deserve better... like going back to school and study for a change.
05-20-2007, 02:33 PM
Yes, Larouche does attack people who so happen to be Jewish but not because of their ethnicity or religion. He attacks them because of the actions they are commiting. Henry Kissinger for instance: Larouche isn't attacking him because of his religion. He's not attacking him for being Jewish. Larouche has been after Kissinger Because Kissinger Has killed millions and I'm serious Millions of people. The famines, dictatorships, the spreading of H.I.V have came out of Kissinger's policies. If you don't believe me, just read national security memorandum 200 where Kissinger Calls for the mass murder of all "Underdeveloped Nations". He even cites 13 coutries to target for murder. "Mexico, Nigeria, India,etc." Not to mention, Kissinger as well as George Shultz, and Felix Rohatyn financed operation Condor. This operation put the Dictator, Augusto Pinochet into power in Chile. Once again it doesn't what race a person is, if they are killing people then they are evil. This should be common sense.
Not only that but Larouche has many close friends who are Jewish. Jeffrey Steingber, Harlery Shlanger, and Pheil Rubinstein are all Jewish. There are other members as well. He was also great friends with a famous Israeli poet who just passed away. I forgot his name. He also constantly refers to Yitzhak Rabin as a role model to help restore peace in Israel. So you claim he's antisemetic yet he references a formal Israeli Prime Minister as a great hero.
05-20-2007, 02:42 PM
For some newer fun we now go to Australia where a scandal broke out this March involving person named Ken Aldred.
I am not up to speed on what happens in Australia where it seems the cult took over a tiny party called the CEC. I do know that Al Douglas from the USA is the person who is in charge of what happens in Australia. there was some commotion some tiime ago becuase of the amount of money being sent from Australia to the USA via Al's brother Steve Douglas. I am not privy to these transacations, but, they were of the type which made Lyn become quite concerned about their causing some sort of "problem". Maybe it had something to do with his parole as this was in the 1990s.
Here is a quote about Al Douglass on Aldred appearing in some white power forum.
"LaRouche leader Allen Douglas has praised Aldred as a "patriot acting in the best interests of his country".
WHOA, here we go again with the use of the term "Patriot". I think all Jews should start running fast whenever the words Larouche and Patriot are used in the same paragraph.
Any explanation about this whole affair is more then welcome. What we seem to have is the Larouche cult providing what is descrivbed as forged documents to Aldred who then uses them to attack Jews and others as drug dealers, pimps and other typical attacks the LC often uses. When I was in and Dope Inc was being sold we would attack the Bronfmans, Max Fisher and other ADL associated Jews as gangsters and drug runners. Now carefully understand what I am going to say here. Because of how crazy Lyn and the cult are, they can do dirty tricks on behalf of people with some immmunity. In quite a few cases we would work with people, somtimes are supposes enemies, and use the members to hand out crazy leafletts and such which no one esle could for fear of lawsuits. Lyn has the tactical advantage in that being crazy can be a plus on your resume for other people. The GOP loved us for being Democrats and using the cult to attack Democrats.
Here are a few links and articles for you to read. I hope anyone who knows more about the forged documents can shed some light on this.
05-20-2007, 02:45 PM
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
With "character" and "integrity" playing such an important role in federal politics of late, it was a really, really, really bad time for a Liberal Party branch to preselect a bizarre anti-Semite for the Victorian seat of Holt.
Here is what the Australian Jewish News has to say about Ken Aldred, who was just endorsed by the Liberals in Holt.
"In 1995, an Australian Federal Police investigation found Aldred had used forged documents to smear Leibler and the then head of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Michael Costello, in Parliament.
The forged documents are believed to have been sourced from the Citizens Electoral Council, the Australian arm of Lyndon LaRouche's radical conspiracy network."
The state of the Liberal Party has not had much attention of late, and when you look at life in the branches, the media need to have a damn good look at the Libs.
I'm not saying that everyone in the Liberal Party is a degenerate. There are numerous dignified members who stand up for true liberal principles. The fact that Petro Georgio can win pre-selection in Kooyong so easily proves that not all of the Liberal Party is rotten, but the pre-selection of the disgraceful Aldred proves some branches have been hijacked by people who can best be described as complete and utter shonks.
And things are worse north of the boarder in NSW. The ultra-conservative Catholic backbencher David Clarke has been stacking branches and committees with religious fundamentalists, and Young Liberals proudly chant, "We're racist. We're sexist. We're Homophobic" at national student conferences.
It seems the gentle old lady Libs and the Rotary Club men, who are actually quite nice people, are being overrun.
And things aren't much better in the Nationals. Perennial far right wing letter to the editor writer, Brian Handley of Moe and Geelong, was so highly regarded by a local branch in Gippsland, he was voted in as president. Handley latest anti-Muslim diatribe (did you know they are trying take over Australia via a breeding program?) in the Geelong Advertiser made Hanson look like a moderate. How he stays in the party is a mystery. The fact he became president is a disgrace.
John Hyde Page wrote of rampant branch stacking and bullying at branch meetings and it is becoming increasingly clear many people rising to office bearer and paid positions are those who are the most ruthless at politics.
And to top things off, a source told me Cr Ron Humphey (the same guy who was invol ved in porn being faxed to the mayor's children), is the new President of the Surf Coast Liberal Party.
Menzies would be rolling in his grave
05-20-2007, 02:46 PM
NATIONAL (MARCH 19, 2007)
Liberals distance themselves from controversial candidate
The Liberal Party has moved to close off an embarrassing preselection controversy involving a former MP who had links to the far-right Citizens Electoral Council.
Ken Aldred, who was disendorsed by the Liberals 10 years ago for running a smear campaign against prominent Australian Jews including Mark Leibler, Rabbi Joseph Gutnick and Frank Lowy, won the support of a local Liberal committee on Sunday to stand as the party's candidate in the Victorian seat of Holt, in Melbourne's south-east.
But his political revival looks likely to be quashed before it even gets off the ground, with senior party powerbrokers vowing to reject his candidacy.
Prime Minister John Howard then Opposition leader was forced to apologise to Leibler in 1995 after Aldred made a series of bizarre allegations against him in Parliament, claimi ng Leibler was a Mossad agent and a money-launderer with links to drug-traffickers from Suriname.
Leibler told the AJN today he expected Aldred's nomination to be short-lived after discussions with senior Liberals.
Aldred cannot become an endorsed candidate without the support of the party's administrative commitee, which will almost certainly oppose him.
"Obviously it's a matter of considerable concern," Leibler said. "I've discussed this at the highest levels of the Liberal Party and I understand there may shortly be action at a state level to disendorse Aldred.
"It is also very clear to me that Aldred is not the sort of person who would be supported by the treasurer or the prime minister or anyone of standing within the Liberal Party."
Senior Liberals tonight said Aldred had "no chance" of winning the party's endorsement as a candidate when its central administrative committee considers his nomination in a fortnight.
"Ken woul d not be a welcome or acceptable member of the Howard team," a senior party source told the AJN.
With issues of character and integrity at the forefront of national politics in the past fortnight, the Aldred controversy threatens to be a major source of embarrassment for the Howard Government.
In 1995, an Australian Federal Police investigation found Aldred had used forged documents to smear Leibler and the then head of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Michael Costello, in Parliament.
The forged documents are believed to have been sourced from the Citizens Electoral Council, the Australian arm of Lyndon LaRouche's radical conspiracy network.
Parliament's only Jewish MP, Michael Danby, said the Liberals' support for Aldred was insulting.
Aldred had used parliamentary privilege to make "scurrilous" attacks on Jewish leaders, accusing them of being involved in tax scams, drug trafficking and pornography.
"The decision to endorse former MP Ken Aldred as the Liberal candidate for Holt at this year's election is an insult to the Jewish community," Danby said in a statement.
The AJN was not able to contact Aldred today.
05-20-2007, 02:54 PM
STRANGER THAN FICTION: Aldred Scandal Spreads Like Cancer // Federal Lib MP Supplied Glowing Reference for Anti-Semite Crackpot
Liberal candidate for Holt Ken Aldred:
¡ Hates Jews and gays,
¡ Tells journalists Prime Minister John Howard is a traitor, ie takes money to betray his country to foreign powers,
¡ Reckons Jewish community leader and solly Mark Leibler is a porn-lord, a Mossad spy, a drug dealer's money launderer and not to be outdone a broker of nuclear weapons to the Indonesians (OC: Where does the 003 1/2 Mr Leibler find the time?)
¡ "Proves" these claims with forged documents provided to him by lunar far-right groups with which he's formed a close political bond like the Larouchites who think the Queen of England is herself a heroin trafficker.
Despite these seemingly profound disabilities, not only was he selected as the Liberal candidate for Holt by local and State Council picked preselectors, The Australian today reveals that the dangerous lunatic receive d a glowing recommendation from one of the current backbench members of "Traitor" John Howard's government, Russell Broadbent.............
05-20-2007, 02:56 PM
Mr Aldred, who has been linked to the far-Right US-based LaRouche organisation and its Australian arm, the Citizens Electoral Council, was endorsed last weekend by Liberal branches in the federal Victorian seat of Holt. (OC: Not just local branches, but State Council sourced preselectors too)............................
Jewish lawyer Mark Leibler, who was falsely accused by Mr Aldred in 1995 of being involved in a money-laundering scam run by the Israeli spy agency, lobbied the Government to demand the ballot be overturned.
Mr Broadbent said he had been unaware before yesterday about Mr Aldred's attack on Mr Leibler.
He said he also had been unaware that Mr Aldred provided documents to a Melbourne newspaper alleging Mr Howard, and former prime ministers Paul Keating and Bob Hawke accepted money from the Indonesian government in return for influencing Au stralia's foreign policy. The documents were found to be false.
Mr Broadbent said Mr Aldred's attack on Mr Leibler was made in 1995 when he was between terms as a member of parliament. (OC: Not true, he was in Parliament and it hardly matters anyway)
05-20-2007, 03:01 PM
No. 2, February 2001
THE LaROUCHE CULT:
THE CITIZENS ELECTORAL COUNCIL
Since the late 1980s, a branch of an American fascist political cult has been operating in Australia. Headquartered in Melbourne, the "Citizens Electoral Council" (CEC) functions strictly according to the dictates of Virginia-based cult leader Lyndon LaRouche, a 78-year old who has served time in prison for fraud and tax evasion.
Lyndon LaRouche believes in an impending world crisis engineered by an alleged cabal of Jewish bankers based in Britain. He has established a worldwide movement dedicated to the advancement of this idea through the use of varied misinformation, fundraising, and political campaigns. LaRouche's racist conspiracies have been adapted by the CEC with local targets including Aborigines, Jews, environmentalists and the Australian Government.
The CEC plays a small but important part in the global LaRouche movement and should not be dismissed as a relatively insignificant or ineffectual vestige of the racist fringe. For, by deceptively promoting itself as a legitimate grassroots labour movement, the CEC has been able to target trade unionists and politicians, as well as gain recruits and raise millions of dollars by preying on elderly and educationally disempowered Australians.
This Briefing Paper seeks to shed light on a group that has undoubtedly become one of the best organised and financed, as well as one of the most pernicious, racist groups in Australia.
Each new recruit is forced to undergo "deprogramming sessions" to attain mindless conformity to the cause. Former CEC staffer Donald Veitch has categorically stated: "The mind control operations commenced by LaRouche in the USA in the mid-1970s are still being practised today within his movement in Australia".
The LaRouchian cult-style ego-stripping mind-control techniques involve recruits being probed for sexual peccadilloes, especially their sexual relationship with their mother. The "Witch Mother" or her surrogate is blamed for a recruit's neuroses and is hunted down for exorcism: by a recruit denouncing the "Witch Mother", recruiting his wife to the cause, or leaving his wife and family, he will be declared "unblocked", "potent" and a "beautiful" person. XVI There have been several documented cases of recruits severing ties with their families as a result of the ego-stripping sessions. xv" National Secretary Craig Isherwood also apparently uses the techniques to unmask "threats" from within the CEC and then devises strategies to counter them, thereby promoting himself as the organisation's "dragon slayer".
05-20-2007, 03:03 PM
Raising funds for LaRouche
Despite LaRouche's imprisonment for fraud and tax evasion, his movement continues to raise millions of dollars worldwide by misrepresentation and deception. CEC staffers are exploited by the cult, often working in a "boiler room" atmosphere to solicit funds over the phone. The financially and educationally disempowered and weak are targeted in the belief that the potential combination of fragility, loneliness and a final search for meaning make them susceptible to exploitation. Donors are assured that it is of no consequence if one's credit card is overdrawn, because the entire financial system is about to collapse anyway and the debts won't need to be repaid.
During the 1990s, the CEC netted about $3 million in Australia, more than the National Party and the Democrats. In its annual return to the Australian Electoral Commission in February 1999, the CEC says that it secured donations of more than $1 million.
Alien Douglas has control over the disposal of all funds raised in Australia, which are spent on:
i. Trips to the Leesburg headquarters for re-education and training for Australian cadres and potential recruits. (LaRouche headquarters in Leesburg apparently considers Australia as an offal from the British Empire and its inhabitants "head cases". Therefore, CEC cadres are frequently flown to the US for extensive psychoanalysis and training.)
II. International conference calls to maintain immediate and direct American control over the Australian operations,
III. LaRouche's public relations efforts.
Entering the cult
"They inquired into my relationship with my mother. That was pretty much standard procedure. It was an interrogation. The whole aim was to create a new person, making your past totally irrelevant and giving you a new personality. No matter what you said it was your mother's fault. It was pretty hideous stuff. Many people broke down and cried."
- Alex Rotaru, a former CEC intelligence officer, on the cult's indoctrination procedure.
"They would tell you there was something wrong with your mind if you are not pulling huge dollars in."
- Julie Warner, who blamed CEC brainwashing for bringing her close to suicide.
"They are a horrible bunch of people. When 1 first flew to Melbourne, 1 could only talk to her sitting on the fence outside (the CEC office)."
- Queensland farmer Joe Vella who was prevented from seeing his wife after she joined the CEC.
From Martin Daly's report, "Families fight back", The Age, 30 January 1996.
05-20-2007, 03:05 PM
Friday February 16, 1996
LaRouchites trying to smear Jewish families Down Under
Jewish Telegraphic Agency
SYDNEY, Australia -- Two Australian federal parliamentarians have joined Jewish community groups in a call for the government to investigate the activities of the Australian followers of U.S. extremist Lyndon LaRouche.
LaRouche's ideology combines anti-Semitism and bizarre conspiracy theories, such as the claim that Queen Elizabeth heads a drug-pushing ring and that former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was in the employ of the Soviet KGB.
LaRouche has served five years in an American prison for mail fraud and tax evasion.
The two Labor Party politicians called a press conference last week at which they said the LaRouchite Citizens Electoral Councils were involved in an "unprecedented criminal conspiracy" against prominent Jewish families.
One of the parliamentarians, Clyde Holding, who holds a seat in the heartland of Melbourne's Jewish community, described LaRouche as "extreme and anti-Semitic."
A former executive member of the Citizens Electoral Councils, Don Veitch, has stated in a detailed affidavit that he gathered information on Australian Jews and disseminated material "designed to damage, discredit and falsely smear" them.
The group's primary targets in Australia have been Isi Leibler, chairman of the governing board of the World Jewish Congress, and his younger brother Mark, a past president of the Zionist Federation of Australia.
The LaRouchites have tried to link them with drug-dealing and pornography.
An investigation by the Melbourne newspaper The Age recently said LaRouchites with criminal records have visited Australia to oversee the Citizens Electoral Councils' operations and adherents of the group have been subjected to brainwashing sessions.
The newspaper also said that the Citizens Electoral Councils were behind a defamatory campaign by a federal Liberal parliamentarian, Ken Aldred, that linked Mark Leibler and a senior government official to an international corruption intrigue.
The Executive Council of Australian Jewry, the Jewish community's umbrella body, issued a statement saying, "The Lyndon LaRouche cult has established an international reputation for fraudulent and dishonest activities. "The cult's history has been marked by an anti-Semitic obsession with Jewish individuals and organizations, with belief in conspiracies involving Jews at the very heart of its ideology. "The allegations concerning the group's targeting of prominent and respected Jewish Australians will serve as a chilling example of the lengths to which such obsessed people will go."
The ECAJ urged the government "to commission a report by law enforcement agencies as to whether the anti-Australian behavior of the Australian supporters of Lyndon LaRouche involved any illegal activities, including breaches of visa regulations."
The national secretary of the Citizens Electoral Councils, Craig Isherwood, said "the issue here causing the attacks against our organization is the political personality of Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr., currently the second ranking contender behind President Clinton in the Democratic Party pre-selection process for the presidency of the United States."
05-20-2007, 03:07 PM
This surprised me because I would see Nexus magazine in the magazine rack and thought all they did was look for UFOs , crop cirlces and aliens. Little did I know that the editor Duncan Roades also looks for Jews.
Roads, who was born in Britain, is a close confidant of Robert Pash, one-time leader of Aryan Nations in Australia and the man who organised a trip to Libya for Patrick Harrington, Nick Griffin and Derek Holland of the British National Front's 'political soldier' faction in 1989. Pash, now organiser for the Libyan-Arab Cultural Centre, was a key player in the establishment of the Lyndon LaRouche cult in Australia.
Roads has also published articles supporting Lyndon LaRouche, the convicted US con man and extremist, including long excerpts from his book Dope In'.., and has serialised an antisemitic and racist book War Cycles, Peace Cycles. Its author, Richard Kelly Hoskins, a long-time far-right activist, argued elsewhere in the book that it was justifiable to kill "interracial" couples and claimed that Jewish people are usurers.
Nexus's global news section carries regular excerpts from the racist and antisemitic US newspaper The Spotlight, published by Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby. David Irving's book Churchill's War was fawningly praised in the July 1993 issue, which described Irving as "Britain's top historian". The following edition praised Irving's Hitler's War as giving "a very different picture of Hitler and World War II as that of the Hollywood movies".
05-20-2007, 03:12 PM
Here are a few Australian articles about the operations down under.
Sign of misjudgement
By Jeremy Jones
LaRouche: at it again
Before Lyndon LaRouche was found guilty of fraud, he had a reputation as a political extremist, cynical manipulator and conspiratorial opportunist. While he was in jail, it became evident to all but his hardcore, delusional devotees that what he had built was less of a political movement than a cult.
The international organisation he developed, with its expertise in convincing often needy people to depart with money and a structured system which split cult-members from their previous lives, including their loved ones, continued to campaign to have the rest of the world recognise his "genius", if not his divinity.
One method they used, to reinforce the shaky foundations on which the felonfs grandiose claims stood, was to collect signatories for newspaper advertisements and petitions, including where possible from "prominent citizens", which spoke of the injustice of his incarceration, his unique observations on world affairs, the desirability of having him elected president of the USA, or any combination of the above.
During the years, some surprising names have appeared on Lyndon LaRouche petitions, with the surprise sometimes shared by the purported signatory.
The movement has a number of, shall we say, party tricks, including asking people to sign a petition which would call for justice, caution, common sense or some other virtue and, once names were received, the LaRouchites would provide a fresh introduction and conclusion and reputedly rational people appeared to endorse the world view of Lyndon LaRouche or his Australian acolytes, the Citizens Electoral Councils (CECs).
Some lightweight luminaries, when asked how they could associate with LaRouchites, admitted to having a faint recollection of signing a petition, but then claimed they would sign any petition which they felt was not completely unreasonable.
While I would have thought that claiming LaRouche had been unfairly convicted would have first required a reasonable person to find out a little about the now ex-con, the suggestion of intellectual leg-work has astounded some councillors, ex-politicians or other public figures.
This May, when the Citizens Electoral Council had a costly insert published in some of our major daily broadsheets, the Sydney Morning Herald ran a clear deconstruction of the cult, which hopefully undid any short-term propaganda benefit to a most dislikeable claque of cultists.
A second advertisement, in June, differed from the first through the inclusion of a number of names of the usual suspects, some virtually unknown "public figures", a slate of Islamic and Arab personalities and a few others who fall into the category of "should have known better".
Given the way LaRouche is venerated by his followers, it is unsurprising that his most committed critics are conservative Christians, who see him as being as counterposed to Christianity as he is to common sense.
05-20-2007, 03:14 PM
The cultfs promotion of bizarre antisemitic conspiracy theories and on-going extremism has done nothing to endear it to Jewish people, who overall are unimpressed by claims by LaRouchites of a scheme for world domination pursued by Jews, Nazis, Communists and the occasional social democrat. Individuals in senior positions in Australiafs Islamic and Arab communities, however, featured prominently amongst the signatories on the advertisement which promoted the CECs in the context of claiming that Australiafs government and opposition are colluding to turn Australia into "a carbon copy of Hitlerfs Germany" and to introduce "the use of torture and other sadistic measures as applied both at Guantanamo Bay and at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq."
Of the 18 "Islamic" and four "Arabic" leaders listed, some will come as no surprise. Sheikh Hilaly, of "Jews are the cause of all wars" fame, has articulated conspiracy theories that would appeal to the average LaRouchite, so his name seems perfectly in place.
Likewise Keysar Trad is a Lebanese Muslim with catholic tastes in extremists, having previously associated himself with Australiafs largest racist and anti-immigrant group, the Australian League of Rights.
On the other hand, Kuranda (Seyfi) Seyit is actively involved in collaborative interfaith work, but will now have his judgement, if not his motives, called into question.
It is not implausible that other signatories followed the lead of these men, or were duped by the CECs into doing something they now regret.
Three of the signatories were given the opportunity, when interviewed by The Age, to distance themselves from the petition.
General Peter Gration, whose signature was the CECfs greatest coup, was reported as telling The Age "he would be concerned if his name on the petition was interpreted to mean anything other than he had concerns about the anti-terrorism measures".
Ken Wriedt, the highest profile former politician to sign, left readers grateful that his ministerial days are over when he admitted he had signed the petition despite knowing the CECsf links to LaRouche.
Sheikh Fehmi, the most surprising inclusion amongst the Islamic signatories, reportedly rejected claims the CECs are antisemitic, but readers are left in the dark as to what research could yield such a novel conclusion.
The CECsf activities have had a hurtful impact on individual Australians and a number of good and decent Australian families. Its campaigns have produced no political results, beyond embarrassment and/or disgrace to those who have associated themselves with the cult.
I hope all those who are busy rationalising their decisions to sign on to this latest effort will reflect seriously on the fact that they either consciously supported extremism or made an error of judgement which they should regret and for which they should seek to make amends
05-20-2007, 03:17 PM
The CECs are awash with cash
By Jamie Hyams
The debate about the Victorian Governmentfs proposed Racial and Religious Tolerance legislation has seen an upsurge in activity by one of Australiafs strangest and most insidious political movements, the Citizenfs Electoral Council of Australia (CEC), who are notable, among other things, for doing appallingly badly at elections but still managing to raise millions of dollars. The CEC have been prominent at the Governmentfs public consultations, with members loudly voicing their opposition to the proposals and distributing pamphlets.
At a shopping centre near you: the CEC's grimy pamphlet of wild conspiracy theories and allegations
Their pamphlet claims, among other things, that the legislation itself is racist because it presumes "that there are many races instead of one human race", that it "has nothing to do with racial vilification but is designed to silence political discussion", that it is aimed mainly at silencing the followers of LaRouche and that "its proponents are the most fanatical right-wing Zionist extremists in Australiacwho are associated with the West Bank Settlers movement in Israel and the drive for a religious war in the Middle East". Naturally, these contentions would surprise the Government and other advocates of the legislation who are interested only in limiting the most harmful forms of racist expressions. They would also surprise all other Australian states, as well as most overseas democracies, which already have similar laws.
The CEC started in the late 1980s in Queensland as an organisation devoted to the promotion of Citizen Initiated Referenda, but by 1992 was being run from Victoria by devotees of American Lyndon LaRouche, with considerable input from LaRouchefs American operatives. LaRouche is best known for being sentenced to 15 years in jail for fraud related to fund raising for his movement and for his bizarre conspiracy theories. LaRouche and his followers claim, among other things, that Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip head a "financial oligarchy" that rules the world, that they are responsible for most of the worldfs drug trafficking, that Zionism is part of this conspiracy and that the Ku Klux Klan is controlled by the FBI. The LaRouche organisation is also notorious for the practices it uses to maintain control over its adherents, including psychological manipulation, and has been responsible for the break up of many families. It is perhaps best described as a political cult.
It is not surprising that an organisation that promotes Zionist conspiracy theories and argues strongly against Aboriginal land rights should fight Racial and Religious Tolerance Legislation, or that an organisation based on paranoia should believe such legislation is aimed mainly at them. But literature recently distributed at train stations in Melbourne and also mailed to members of parliament gives a disturbing insight into the bizarre world views of the LaRouchites. The pamphlet is titled "The real story behind Queen Elizabethfs fascist racial vilification legislation".
05-20-2007, 03:19 PM
Many LaRouchite conspiracy theories are based on drawing sinister conclusions from coincidental links. For example, in this case, the "proof" that the Queen is behind the proposed legislation is that the Bfnai Bfrith Anti-Defamation Commission (ADC) is a supporter of the legislation. The ADCfs advisory board includes among its members Sir Zelman Cowan, Malcolm Fraser and Sir Ninian Stephen who are all Privy Councillors, a basically titular honour that in the Australian context was once conferred on Australiafs former Governors General, Prime Ministers, High Court justices, etc. Therefore, in the bizarre CEC worldview, obviously the Queen, through her Privy Council, is responsible for the legislation. The role of the Victorian Government in all this is not spelled out.
This raises the question of why exactly the Queen would be interested, but the CEC also have all the answers here. The legislation is supposedly aimed at stifling dissent towards Aboriginal land rights. The Queenfs interests in land rights are set out in a pamphlet titled "Aboriginal "Land Rights": Prince Phillipfs racist plot to splinter Australia" and are conveniently summarised by Craig Isherwood, CEC National Secretary and spectacularly unsuccessful Senate candidate, (but wefll come to that later). He argues that land rights were "cooked up" in order to "break up the Australian nation-state and steal our raw materials". Unfortunately neither Mr Isherwood, or the chapter headed "Globalisation and "Land Rights": the Crown Plot to Loot Australia" go on to explain how (even if, as claimed, the land given to the Aboriginal people includes the countryfs mineral wealth), the minerals will end up in the hands of the evil Queen.
The decidely uncharismatic Craig Isherwood, CEC National Secretary
The pamphlet features a chapter written by Lyndon LaRouche, to whom his followers in the CEC generally refer as "statesman and physical economist". Apparently running unsuccessfully for US president entitles you to be referred to as a statesman if you do so often enough. In his foreword, Mr Isherwood warns that the content is challenging and difficult. He was not kidding. Mr LaRouchefs style is characterised by a tortuous use of language and punctuation. He focuses on perceived attacks on himself from the Crown and those he sees as connected to it, such as the World Wide Fund for Nature and cites, as the authorities for his various propositions, publications from his own organisation. The headings in his article include "Prince Phillip: Man or Beast". He refers to a wide array of seemingly irrelevant writings to "prove" his points and economic theories, such as various Renaissance astronomers and mathematical physicists. A cynic might argue that he is as interested in impressing his readers with the breadth of his knowledge as he is in explaining his views.
The chapter titled "Globalisation and "Land Rights": the Crown Plot to Loot Australia", written by American LaRouchite Allen Douglas, concludes "In short, Aboriginal "land rights" is a thoroughly racist movement sponsored by the royal family, and run through such fronts as [mining company] Rio Tinto, for the purpose of consolidating their political control over Australia, and greatly enriching themselves financially." The chapter goes on to claim that most of Pauline Hansonfs ideas came from Lyndon LaRouche.
The final chapter, taken from a 1998 edition of the CEC magazine, New Citizen, is called "The Leibler brothers and the Australia/Israel Review: Economic Rationalism, dope and land rights". It mainly concerns itself with defaming AIJAC national chairman Mark Leibler and his brother Isi.
05-20-2007, 03:21 PM
With beliefs such as those set out above, it is not surprising that the CECfs election results can only be described as spectacularly unsuccessful. In the most recent Federal election, they ran Senate tickets in New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, Western Australia and South Australia and also candidates in a few Lower House seats in each of those states except South Australia, 26 seats altogether. Overall, there were 1,919,270 formal votes cast in the seats in which the CEC stood candidates. Only 8,293 people cast their votes for the CEC, including 1,366 in Maribyrnong Victoria, where they were first on the ballot and therefore got the donkey vote. This is an overall percentage of 0.43%.
In the Senate, however they did far worse. They received 4,403, or 0.12% of the 3,755,725 formal votes cast in New South Wales; in Victoria, where National Secretary Craig Isherwood was number one on the ticket, they received 821 or 0.03% of the 2,843,160 formal votes cast; in Queensland, it was 0.09%; 0.14% in Western Australia; and 0.09% in South Australia. Overall, there were 10,613,489 formal votes cast in the Senate elections in those five states and the CEC received only 9,403, or 0.089%.
It would be reasonable to expect that a party that obviously has so little public support would also attract relatively little funding, but surprisingly, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the CECfs electoral return for 1999-2000 shows that they raised $1,113,220.22 in that year. In addition, associated entities CEC Australia (Services) Pty Ltd and Citizens Media Group Pty Ltd between them raised a further $248,982.87, making a grand total of $1,485,484.06.
Of the money raised by the CEC itself, $991,577.07 went to CEC Australia (Services) Pty Ltd. This company has only 2 shareholders, Craig Isherwood and his wife Noelene, and 3 Directors, the Isherwoods and Robert Barwick. A further $70,003.00 went to Citizens Media Group Pty Ltd. The CECfs Electoral return also showed that it had debts of $1,152,806.62. This included the huge sum of $941,115.24 owing to Publications and General Management of Leesburg Virginia USA, the headquarters of the LaRouche organisation, as well as $85,409.16 to CEC Australia (Services) Pty Ltd and $45,494.07 to Citizenfs Media Group Pty Ltd.
In comparison to the funds raised by the CEC, the Australian Democrats were able to raise $966,328.17 during the same period, of which $167,000 was funding from electoral authorities, and Pauline Hansonfs One Nation raised $878,240.75, including $126,516 from the New South Wales State Electoral Office. Out further on the fringe, Graeme Campbellfs Australia First Party raised $32,003.85 and the Australians Against Further Immigration a mere $750.00.
This is clearly an organisation for whom raising money is more important than gaining votes, but the questions remain, how do they do it and what sort of people contribute? Previous editions of The Review have set out the organisationfs high pressure fund raising techniques, which consisted of groups of devotees manning phones virtually all day, ringing potential donors, with carefully prepared sales pitches, and high pressure follow up visits to contributors, generally by American operatives, to squeeze as much as possible out of them.
05-20-2007, 03:22 PM
Australian Electoral law requires parties to declare all receipts where $1,500 or more has been received. These came to a total of $356,460.10 in the CEC return, leaving $756,760.12 from sources which cannot be verified. The declared donors generally live in rural areas, largely in Western Australia. We spoke to a number of these donors, who each contributed thousands of dollars, to find out what motivated them. There was general agreement that the country, and especially the rural sector, was in poor shape today, that there was some sort of international conspiracy responsible for this and that the major parties were not to be trusted. Some were less certain that the Queen was the head of this conspiracy, but there was an overall belief that, having uncovered the conspiracy, Lyndon LaRouche, with his anti-globalisation policies, was the only person who could save us from it. One gentleman informed us that "you have to re ad a book each week" and that it costs $700.00 a year to purchase these books. Being a devoted LaRouchite is certainly not cheap.
LaRouche and his associates have a history of fraudulent fund raising as attested by criminal convictions in the US. This history, the huge amounts raised in spite of the CECfs extremely low level of public support and the fact that the source for so much of the money raised remains hidden might lead some to suggest that an official enquiry into the organisationfs fund raising practices is something Australian legal authorities should consider.
05-20-2007, 03:25 PM
PARANOID ANTI-SEMITIC CON-MEN: THE CEC AND THE LAROUCHE MOVEMENT
Dr Paul Gardner
Extreme right-wing, paranoid, economic snake-oil salesmen, racists, mad cultists, swindlers: these are just some of the epithets which have been (justifiably) used to describe the Citizens Electoral Council and its American backers, the LaRouche movement. This organisation has come to public attention yet again in the last two weeks with revelations by disgruntled former members Don Veitch and John Seale of the CEC's underhand activities since it set up its national headquarters in Coburg in 1992.Are CEC and LaRouche anti-semitic? The CEC do not engage in Christian theological anti-semitism, or blanket condemnations of the Jewish people.There is no evidence of their involvement in terrorism against Jewish targets,in sending offensive anti-semitic insults through the mails, in tombstone desecration, or in synagogue arson. Nevertheless, they are unquestionably anti-semitic. Their methods are more sophisticated than those of traditionalanti-semites: instead of attacking the entire Jewish community, they focus on prominent Jewish leaders (Edgar Bronfman in the US, the Leibler brothers (here) and Jewish organisations (the Anti-Defamation League, B'nai B'rith and its Anti-Defamation Commission). The technique is simple: circulate false and defamatory information in the hope that some of the mud will stick. Falsely accusing Jewish leaders of being involved in the drug trade or the distribution of pornography can be thought of as a modern version of the ancient libels that the Jews used Christian children's blood to make matzah or poisoned the village wells. And claiming that Jewish organisations are part of a massive international conspiracy involving government departments and intelligence agencies is a late 20th century version of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.
There is nothing new about this: individual anti-semites have been doing it for years. Every few weeks, members of the Jewish community pass on to the Anti-Defamation Commission some anonymous and semi-literate letter they've received which contains anti-semitic conspiracy theory themes. And there's also nothing new about organised hate groups circulating anti-semitic publications. What is different about the CEC and their LaRouchite backers is that there is big money behind them. Almost a million dollars has been raised in Australia, and many times that amount in the United States. And their method of circulation is not the semi-literate hand-written note: it is the glossy publication, the printed newspaper, written in literate English, distributed in tens of thousands of copies, to politicians, to the media, to entire streets in Caulfield. All this costs money, lots of money.
05-20-2007, 03:28 PM
Where does the money come from? Much of it is lifted from the pockets of gullible people. In the United States, LaRouche has been released on parole after serving five years of a fifteen year sentence (and several of his associates are still in jail) for criminal offences related to the defrauding of banks and individuals of $30 million. A typical ploy is to set up fake front organisations (e.g. the "Anti-Drug Coalition") and then fleece innocent and impressionable members of the public. There is a thick file of cases of people being "encouraged" to hand over large parts of their life savings to help fight fake "worthy causes". In 1990, the Washington Post gave details of a typical case: Helen Overington, a wealthy, 83-year-old Baltimore widow, was defrauded of her life savings of $741,268 by the LaRouche organisation. Another form of fraud is carried out through illicit withdrawals from individual credit card accounts. The money goes straight into the coffers of the LaRouchites .
It's a thriving business and leads to a marvellous life-style (if you're not in jail). Lyndon LaRouche and his wife Helga own no property, have no personal bank accounts in the US, have no income, yet they live in a multi-million dollar mansion in Virginia and have access to a town house, property in Germany, limousines, armed bodyguards and unlimited cash for personal purchases. However surprise, surprise they pay no income tax.
No criminal charges have been laid as yet in Australia, but there is some evidence of attempts by locals to copy the LaRouchite methods. In 1994,NSW MLA the Reverend Fred Niles stated that CEC fundraisers had contacted supporters of his Call to Australia party and used Niles' name in an attempt to obtain Bankcard numbers.
The obvious question arises, how do they manage to attract people to work for such a sleazy organisation? To suggest that it is nothing other than plain criminal greed is too simple. The LaRouche movement has all the elements of a cult. New adherents are sometimes pressured, even brain-washed, and sometimes encouraged to break away from their families. Followers treat LaRouche as a guru, and praise his genius in the most extravagant terms: he is an "economic thinker", a "statesman." One feature of a cult is that its belief system is closed to any form of rational argument. Criticisms of LaRouche's economic theories as hogwash are easily dismissed: the critics obviously are not intelligent enough to appreciate the genius of the man. His convictions for major crime are dismissed, with wild claims that he is a political prisoner. Indeed, the fact that he has been jailed is used as "evidence" of the conspiracy against him. Needless to say, his supporters insist that all the charges against him are based on fabricated evidence, part of a gigantic conspiracy involving British Intelligence, the United States government and (of course!) the Anti-Defamation League (ADL).
05-20-2007, 03:34 PM
Who are the people involved in Australia?
A few of the key characters have remained the same during the past few years. Queensland farmer Maurice Hetherington, one of the founders, became infected with the LaRouche virus in 1989. In 1991, he defended LaRouche, arguing that he was "set up by Big Brother. There is a network of people trying to create a new world order, a one-world government... He wrote a book exposing the big guys in the international drug cartels. He named them all, and they had to get him." Hetherington has remained in the CEC organisation, although with the shift f its headquarters to Melbourne, he probably plays a smaller role these days. Craig Isherwood, the CEC's national secretary and standing as a candidate in Wills at next month's election, has been with the CEC since its move to Coburg in 1992. Numerous American LaRouche operatives have visited Australia in the hope of finding fresh pastures to graze upon. The most regular of these has been Al Douglas, who is in charge of the "Asia and Pacific desk" of Executive Intelligence Review, one of several regular LaRouche publications. Douglas sees conspiracies everywhere he looks. In 1988, he claimed that the New Zealand Labor Party and the (right-wing) NZ Business Roundtable were colluding with the Soviet KGB. The supposed purpose of this collusion was the systematic and deliberate destruction of New Zealand, with the Soviets gaining military advantage while the businessmen gained financially.
Others have come and gone. In its earliest days, the CEC was heavily infiltrated with people with League of Rights connections. Don Auchterlonie (the League's Gippsland regional chairman), Betty Luks (later to become its South Australian state director) and Reg Watson of the League-linked Anglo-Saxon-Keltic Society in Tasmania were all early supporters. The ideological positions were initially similar: conspiracy theory views of the world, social credit economics, citizens' initiated referenda, opposition to fluoridation, and so on. But eventually the two fringe groups began to part company. Given the League's avowed dedication to law-and-order and Christian decency, the then-national director Eric Butler undoubtedly wanted to distance himself from LaRouche after the latter's jail sentence for mail fraud. The love affair really broke down after the LaRouchites began spouting forth that Queen Elizabeth was in charge of the drug trade and responsible for organising international terrorism, and that Prince Philip was to blame for our introduction of land rights for aborigines. Some things are too strong for even the League of Rights to stomach.
05-20-2007, 03:36 PM
Others to become disenchanted with the CEC included Trevor Perrott, John Koehler and (most recently) Don Veitch and John Seale. In 1987, Perrott was elected to a state seat in Queensland at a by-election following the retirement of Joh Bjelke-Petersen. He didn't stay in the CEC long, and a few months later rejoined the National Party. Koehler, on the other hand, stayed for years, attending LaRouche conferences, jointly authoring a book with CEC co-founder Hetherington, and on numerous occasions issuing LaRouche-inspired propaganda. But eventually he left, an apparent convert to the cause of truth, goodness and beauty.Veitch and Seale are more recent converts. All of a sudden, they are making statutory declarations and busily spilling the beans to the press about the evils of the organisation. It took them long enough. Veitch met with LaRouche personnel in Virginia in 1991 and joined the management committee of the CEC the next year. In August 1992, he wrote a 25-page tirade attacking the ABC for its treatment of the CEC and LaRouche. In this document, he parroted the line that in the US, "The ADL has connections to organised crime and the drug industry. LaRouche has exposed the links." Perhaps to demonstrate his even-handed dislike of both mainstream parties, he wrote an article for New Citizen later that year which compared Victorian workers under the Kennett government to the "maquiladoras" in the "slave labor camps on the US-Mexican border", and at the same time attacked Paul Keating for appearing as a champion of the workers when during the 1980s he "functioned as a champion of the bankers' interests".
In 1993, Seale came to Melbourne to work for the CEC, fresh from his stunning electoral success in Western Australia where he stood for the Senate and amassed about a hundred votes. In August, after the CEC had distributed a booklet attacking ADL and the Anti-Defamation Commission, he worked the telephones, endlessly and aggressively badgering state parliamentarians about whether they had received the CEC booklet, whether they agreed with it, and if they said no, whether they were in favour ofcrime. Now Seale, like Veitch, has at last seen the error of his ways. One wonders why it took them so long to recognise that their organisation was riddled with immorality. Perhaps it signifies that truth and goodness really do triumph in the end. Or that some people are slow learners. Or that they know when it's a good time to start covering their backsides.
05-20-2007, 03:41 PM
How much political influence has the movement had in Australia?
Fortunately, very little. Former ACT Legislative Assembly politician Dennis Stevenson, who has offered willing support to half-a-dozen different fringe movements, has been a ready supporter, as has former Northern Territory MLA Denis Collins. More recently Victorian Liberal Rod Atkinson endorsed an advertisement supporting the exoneration of LaRouche. Ken Aldred, a Liberal disendorsed by his own party, created a furore last year with his baseless allegations against Mark Leibler and Michael Costello, made under he safety of parliamentary privilege. The accusations of their involvement in drug money laundering, based on fake letters supposedly emanating from Suriname, are thought to have been planted by LaRouche operatives working through the CEC. In a letter to The Age (8/2/96), Aldred denied this. Which raises the obvious question: who did feed him this scurrilous material? Perhaps this soon-to-be-ex-politician can enlighten the public with an answer? In the meantime, don't hold your breath.
But the vast majority of politicians in this country are too sane to be taken in by the LaRouche nonsense. Ms Franca Arena's words in the NSW state parliament last September reflect the voice of mainstream reason. The CEC, she said, was a "lunatic group... obviously anti-Jewish, anti-Aboriginal and anti-British. It spreads half-truths and outright lies, and rings prominent people asking for interviews for their magazine". She advised anyone receiving materials from the CEC to "throw them in the right place: the garbage bin". Actually, there is possibly another use for them: as evidence to be placed before a formal parliamentary enquiry into the operations of this paranoid and quite possibly criminal organisation.
16 February 1996
- Dr Gardner is the senior District Vice-President of B'nai B'rith District 21.
Boy, this all sound like a rerun of the 1980s in the USA. Jews, millions of dollars in fundraising and the Queen of England and the ADL.
Well, it is dinner time now and after that I have school projects with the kids to attend to.
Since I left over two decades ago, anyone with insights into this Australian version of the Bizarro World Down Under is more than welcome here to post.
05-20-2007, 04:01 PM
hey xlcr why haven't you responded to an email i wrote u about a week ago?
05-20-2007, 07:38 PM
jmp87, resend it as I may not have recieved it or maybe accidently deleted it. Things come in spurts depending on what gets posted or something like the Ken Kronberg tragedy which has greatly effected people. Like any email account, spam and Nigerian bank executives come in and get deleted or filtered out and sometimes include an email in haste.
By no means do I consider myself the begining and end of what goes on in the cult. There were a boatload of people before me who came from the SDS LC who left before I read my first Strategy for Socialism. That bunch points to a change in the LC @ 1973 where any discussion of program disappeared and things like Mop Up and the Chris White brainwashing hoax solidified the transformation into a cult.
Another crowd left when the LC went from a leftist orientation to court the rightwing, regardless of absurd the idea that this was a conservative group. Another batch came and went via the front groups like the FEF and the NADC.
Over the years so many people left or were purged that very few people have any idea of the whole thing and that is by design. Until the web was created you had no ability to communicate with other people and when you did you often swapped stories and found out a whole other story that you never knew existed.
Until the Jeremiah Duggan death no one really gave a rat's a** about the LC and Larouche. Most cults decay into sects but Lyn has a lot of experience in this business and can do the same thing over and over like any paroled or disgraced TV charlatan who finds a new audience. All most of us can do is just write what we expereinced which is both similar to others and of course different. When people take the time to tell what was different we find the same patterns which have existed for decades with a different spin.
Let me give you an example of this. In the morning briefing the LYM read there was a recent slug on Sen Chuck Hagel commenting on how state primaires are now loaded in the spring instead of being spread out. Lyn then writes that this opens up the floor for a lot of discontent among voters if a candidate is selected and not too popular in the general electorate. Hmmm, Lyn now writes that this opens up the "DEMAND" of a third party candidate for 2008.
Hmmm. back in the day Lyn did this trick where he was coy about running, though the groundwork for the committes was already done. He actually had the support staff call up people who were close to us and get them to put their names on some inane letter for an ad demanding that Lyn run for office. Lyn, like a street smart hooker would fein interest until he saw the cash and then declared how serious he was. With campaign money you get matching funds and the party starts again.
So be on the lookout for a 2008 run as Lyn may bring out his old classic speech about how he measured the world's leades and they have failed the test .
Now the LYM have not caught on early that they are the cheap replacements for the old LCers who cost money to run. The old LCers are so into the Bizarro world that they read that they are worthless boomers and will be purged and still cling to Lyn. The old LC continues believing that they have a future not noticing that Lyn is looking at weekly budget expenses. Under health care you find both large expenses for health insurance ,(if paid at all) and large bills from facilities the LC is promising people it will pay. Remember that this is a cult not a non profit with a board of directors, a CFO and layers of checks and balances.
05-20-2007, 07:44 PM
I'm guessing you're in the West Coast LYM, based on your listing of LaRouche's "Jewish friends"--Harley Schlanger, Phil Rubinstein--both assigned to the West Coast--and Jeff Steinberg, who travels there quite a bit.
Steinberg once wrote an amazing centerfold in New Solidarity, the defunct predecessor to the defunct New Federalist, in which he said that the Joint Distribution Committee (American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee)had pre-selected every single Jewish immigrant who came to these shores in the first half of the 20th century, so all the Jewish immigrants were "agents" of--some international conspiracy.
So Steinberg's not the guy you want to go to to disprove LaRouche's anti-Semitism.
The reason LaRouche cites Yitzhak Rabin as a great hero is that Rabin signed the Oslo Accords with the PLO--that is, he made a deal with the odious Arafat (New Federalist once described Arafat as "sublime").
And the late Israeli poet whose name you can't remember is Maxim Ghilan, an ultraleftist who became a big fixture in the Israeli peace movement and who supported the "right of return" for Palestinians whereby Israel would fast cease to be a Jewish state.
Don't forget, Lyndon "Some of my best friends are Jews" LaRouche is also the guy who says the Old Testament is a Babylonian fraud and the Talmud is international Jewry's Handbook for Something Bad. He also used to take the position that the Holocaust killed "only" 1.5 million Jews, and they weren't killed for being Jews, but for being trade unionists or communists....
Attacking Henry Kissinger doesn't make you an anti-Semite--it's HOW you attack him. Ditto for Soros, Rohatyn, etc. You don't know about all this because you're not familiar with oceans of creepy LaRouche literature, but let's just say the ADL had reason to be worried.
05-20-2007, 07:46 PM
The LC is sort of a hybrid of a cult and the mob when you get right down to it. Any of you yutes see a yearly budget and get an accounting of what happens besides what is reported to the FEC?
Did any of you oldtimers and yutes notice that years ago the cash flow of the org was that the regions could keep local money for expenses and send what was left to Leesburg and have them pay for shipping, production and other costs? Now what happens to control if you dump the publications and get rid of the many ways for a region (instead of crime family maybe cult family is a better term for these offices) to hide money? The first thing which changes is that the money is now made via either a Larouche campaign or Larouche Pac and is now centrally deployed. You are the last to get something back after Lyn gets his and Helga's life taken care of along with other expenses.
Seriously folks, I do not believe that there ever was an era where we made enough money to pay what we owed 100 %. There were quite a few gut busting laughs when Lyn declared that based on his experience as the world's greatest economist that the org would have no trouble repaying 30 million to our supporters who held our notes. I think he said this as the eviction papers were being read by many members who came home after using their deployment spare change to feed themselves. No matter what you raise, there will always me another crisis, a sort of "Lyn's paradox" nightmare riddle for you weekly.
In my day we were big on Zeno's paradox and now you can spend your time trying to solve "Lyn's paradox
You also can use this to further fool the yutes day in and day out. Here is an example I had emailed to me.
A person emails me that they have a friend in the LYM who they talk to. They ask a question of their LYM friend about why they are being paid squat and live like squatters. The LYM respnds that most of the money is going to printing and mailing the lit. Now first of we can dispell that the budget has money going to postage for PAID subscriptions. Subs in the LC are always a joke as maybe if you are lucky the century may stiil be the same when you recieve it. Lyn sends a memo that PMR is the problem when it is the publisher, PGM, EIRNS, 21st Cent etc which pay the postage, not the printer.
The yute also thinks that gobs of money are being sent to the printer via PMR when that may not be the case at all. There is a whole other side of the relationship between PMR and Lyn that needs to be examined.
Another Yute emails about how they at first found it odd that they were being praised while the older LCers in the office were being constantly denigrated in public and told how worthless they are and how because of them, Lyn is not in power. This attack on the baby boomers was an attack on the older LCers who are showing up on the wrong side of the balance ledger when Lyn counts the weekly haul.
The LYM are set up to replace the LC and their 'Legacy costs" and will be told that they have to now get serious about the fundraising. The last set of NC calls always start off with a report of LPAC income and how by not hitting the quota, humanity is doomed. The yutes can look forward to having an increased money quota for the impeachement drive just like we had with the Jimmy Carter impeachment drive in 1976,77,78,79. At the same time a few old and dusty LCers are being told to go fix meals for the LYM as their 30 year seat is now being taken by a yute who thinks that they will finally put Lyn in power or change the culture or do something.
05-20-2007, 07:55 PM
What does Lyn have to say about this? he always tells you except that when you are in the LC you never have time to read any of this. In the recent trip to Russia we have a great interview of Lyn by people who also were waiting for capitalist economy to collapse for decades.
Here is Lyn's gift to the yutes.
Q: Some of our experts advise citizens to put their savings in physical gold, instead of securities. What do you personally do with your financial investments?
LAROUCHE: I don't have to worry about a problem like that.[laughter] I'm freed of that option. Besides, it won't work anyway.
Thank you LYM yute for sending that great line. Most of the yutes will not figure that line out till a few years from now.
By no means do I have the whole picture, very few do. Go watch a mafia trial on Court TV and see if any top or bottom member has the whole picture. You get a peak and when more people share their peaks, you get a better picture. I met many nice people in the LC whom I am still friendly with. I seperate that personal friendship as strong enough to survive the lunacy and sometimes based on the abuse and hurt we both may have seen.
05-21-2007, 01:20 AM
Yes, I was a member of the west coast region. I was in Los Angeles. Yes, it was disturbing on what I saw of what was done to the older members. The tough part though is that a lot of Lyn's theories are very sound ideas. In particular I love the possibility of freeing the third world from their dire situation. Are you sure Larouche knows about whats being done to the older members?
05-21-2007, 01:45 AM
The reason why I left was not because of Larouche's Ideas per say but because of the living standards. For example I had to wake up at 5:00 in the morning 3 mornings in a row for a cadre deployment and ended up vomiting during the deployment. After that Day I just felt very fatigued. I just couldn't handle getting up really early and staying up real late. Not sure if it was because I was lazy or what it was. It seemed that everyone else was very energetic and not tired at all. I also had a stomach problem as well. I can say one thing for sure. Those 7 months were the most interesting 7 months of my life. Over all I think it was a positive experience. I still collaborate with them and they understood completely on why I felt it was best for me to leave and they are still very friendly with me. Some of the kindest people I've ever met in my entire life are in the movement. They're very intelligent as well. Now of course I don't agree with everything larouche says at all, and I hope the other members feel the same way as well.
I am attending Humboldt State University and right now am taking summer classes in Los Angeles. Not sure what I want to major in. I still love politics and absolutely want to make a positive difference in this world. I'm being dead honest when I say this. I didn't experience what you guys are talking about with these horror stories in the movement. It was in a weird way a very relaxing environment. There would be a lot of excitement when something big was happening: such as when Alito was getting elected, but for the most part I felt at ease.
The food was crap, I didn't get too great of a sleep too often, etc, but the people were friendly and wanted me to question things. There were a couple of members who were grumpy or cultish but i would say 95% of the members were fun to be around with.
05-21-2007, 01:51 AM
Oh, By the way. Did any of you guys know Tom Arnoll? I met him up at Humboldt State. That's where he lives now. He left the movement after Larouche went to jail. I was showing my friend Gora some animations the the lym did on Kepler and Tom immediately knew I was talking about Larouche. I had a 5 minute chat with him and he gave me his # and website. Unfortunately I lost his card he gave. He was a really nice guy.
He knew Bruce director, Ted Andromidas and a few others. He told me that the movement thought he was an agent so he left. Whether That's true I'm not sure about. He also knew Jeffrey Steinberg and Phil Rubinstein.
05-21-2007, 02:19 AM
To give you guys a good Idea about who I am. I was a member of the Larouche Youth Movement for 7 months and had a good time in the movement. I left for various reasons but have no animosity towards them whatsoever. One reason why I left was because I wanted to learn more about the movement but it was hard to do so because I was constantly deploying. So ever since I left, I've been reading, reading, and reaing. That's pretty much it. Reading Larouche, Reading the thinkers larouche mentions a lot, Reading the thinkers Larouche considers scumbags, etc.
After Reading for a year, there are Ideas I agree with larouche, and ideas I disagree with. One problem That I have with his papers is that He's sometimes not thorough about his ideas. For example, i can see where hes getting at with the Idea of using credit to develop infrastructure, but theres so many other things that come into play with that. For example, the interest rates, the price of natural resources, the pay the workers should get, etc, etc, etc.
I don't think that makes Larouche a bad person though, and I do have to say that a lot of the stuff that larouche isn't thorough about, his members will give a deeper incite into that Idea. Bruce Director's Pedagogicals for example helped me out a lot with the mathematics. At first, I had a difficult time understanding what he was talking about, but now it's making more sense.
For example, the doubling of the cube. Now the problem arises from the fact the cubed root of 1 is 1 and the cubed root of 2 is (the cubed root of 2. Now the (cubed root of 2) is an irrational #. This means you can't construct the double with a ruler.
So now that you're confronted with the problem how do you solve it?
Well Bruce uses Archytas's construction with the cylynder, the Torus, And the Spere, I believe. What I've gotten at so far is that through these relationships which you can grasp through the human mind you can see proportions between the cubes of 1, 2,4, and 8. Now we are trying to construct the cube with a volume of two.
So lets start with what we can construct first. We can construct the cube with a volume of 1 and a cube with a volume of 8. This is because they have rational or whole #'s as roots. So you have to find a proportional mean between the 4 cubes to figure out the doubling of the cube.
That where I'm at so far.
Now the beauty in this problem is that it makes you really think and try to solve things rather than just copy things down. It's a lot of fun.
And when someone figures it out they are reliving the discovery that Archytas for instance made.It really is a euphoric feeling. This goes with discovering any idea.
This is the same thing with Kepler. Kepler's intentions were to have the reader actually relive and comprehend the same profound discoveries that he made as well in the hope that more discoveries would be made.
That is why Larouche has assigned the movement with these projects. There is nothing cultish about these projects. They are a big challenge but a lot of fun, and yes, there is a significance to understanding them. It helps people think more clearly. It helps spark creativity. I'm not making this up. I've experienced it. For mer personally the biggest understanding I got to what larouche talks about with creativity was the singing. I was actually developing a voice. I could actually sing. I was shocked. And many other members were shocked as well. We came into this movement with some of us knowing nothing about music and we were becoming beautiful singers.
You guys should really try to double the cube. And if it makes you guys a bit queasy because Larouche talks about it then just remember that Plato started the challenge who is not larouche.
Good night everyone, John Parven
05-21-2007, 03:18 AM
The fact that a number is irrational does not mean you cannot construct it using a ruler. Consider the unit square, for instance, of which the diagonal amounts to square root of of two...
05-21-2007, 04:57 AM
Jmp87, when you say:
"Are you sure Larouche knows about whats being done to the older members?"
It really is the same as what the older members would say 20 years ago when hearing about members being evicted and starved while Lyn was drinking cases of Rheingau at Club Ibykus
"If only Lyn knew"
Of course Lyn knows about what is going on with the boomer LC, he was the one who wen toff at aevery NEC meeting for years and years. There are plenty of memos I posted here from the past few years about this. You don't debate or discuss things in a cult, you are just handed the lastest crisis and interpretation of events and told to go change history by singing for spare change in Dupont circle . You get handed some new magnum opus and told that is what you are thinking today.
Sound kooky? Yeah, because if you go through 40 yeas of Lyn you find that he can turn on a dime and just issue a directive and you forget about the old directive. Plenty of leftist leaning youth joined Lyn to create a "Strategy for Socialism in the lagte 1960s and 1970s. Over the course of a few months we threw Marx into the back of the bus and now became "American System" promoters who quickly donned cheap suits and dresses to man card table shrines at every Airport we could find. The money targets changed and so did we. In the 1980s we went from supporting commmunist economic power and revolution to now making the Soviets the biggest threat to humanaity by unleashing AIDS and a massive Soviet economy while the Democratic party was now KGB run as well as every single conservative think thank.
Think about that. The old leftists who went with Lyn in the early LC were now leaving because of this while a new , younger LC was coming on board for a new chapter.
The enemies change the characters get rearranged but ultimately, only Lyn can save the world with the latest cadre who are now working harder than the last cadre. If Lyn was living to a 150 we would see this cirle jerk go on for many more spins.
As far as Lyn's ideas and yours. Forget about it. YOUR ideas are what counts and Lyn just threw out so many things that a few of them will stick to you.
Why have this albatross of lunacy and hate as well as a chronic exploiter of people rummaging with your freedom?
You mean nothing to him and are as valuable only as your body sacrifices itself to him and your wallet was drained. There are plenty of people who run non profit groups or political groups which are not run as cults. Now you at least will know the warning signs when something becomes to cultish to avoid it.
You may have met nice people, so did I. However, we are not ending up on an index card for a boiler room lackey to call every few months to milk like a cow.
05-21-2007, 04:58 AM
I doubled somehting a lot more interesting than the cube JMP87. I doubled the size of my household with two children whom I spend as much time as possible showing how much opportunity there is in this world and to enjoy the things which interest them. They do not see doom and gloom and despair, but ways in which the world they live in has gotten better and how so many people across the globe are busy inventing, investing, teaching and caring.
I doubled something else every few years after leaving the cult which is my income as I learned thigns in school and went into a career which helps peiople who face incredible problems in their lives.
Ovsr the years the next thing which doubled was my long term savings and investments so I can retire early and work to not be bored or to subsidize and volunteer work we do. For 25 years while Lyn has been telling yuo that the world economy has been crashing, I and others have grown more prosperous as the world economy has grown.
The square footage of my homes have doubled and unlike Lyn I pay my mortgage and notes and have not lost a few hundred million dollars by squandering ALL OF THE PROPERTY WE OWNED IN VIRGINA. That's right JMP87. The world's greatest economist figured out how to lose a hundred million in valuable real estate in the hottest lcoation in the USA by pure delusiuons of grandeur. When it came time to pay the bills or pay a few scam artists to praise him as an "Olympian insider", Lyn valued his super ego as more important than the super land we owned. Lyn's old mansion/farm is now the site of luxury housing and retail. I bet quite a few LYM and LCers shop at an Old Navy store at the mall right on where the wine cooler may have sat.
I have doubled the books and supplies that my kids classrooms have had available to them. We worked hard to double the suare footage of local schools for kids to learn in.
Enjoy life and freedom. Lyn has to give you projects so that you never figure out why you are the latest replacement model for the past 4 or 5 models he has owned in the cult.
05-21-2007, 10:50 AM
As to the validity of Lyn's ideas, though you speak with the voice of angels, if you have no charity, to paraphrase the Bible. How can someone be seriously concerned with living conditions in the Third World when he treats his membership like crap. Yes, sacrifices are sometimes necessary even for worthwhile causes, but before you give your life and sanity over to a cause, you better have a good idea what that organization really stands for. I can say having had twenty years or more in the org. up to the eighties, I never saw anybody that was actually helped by an action that Lyn took if it didn't mean something in it for the organization and Lyn in particular.
You can be active in politics without being in a cult and be involved in movements that don't necessarily demand a suspension of critical thinking.
And mp87, don't you think it odd that Lyn seems to dramatize the so-called evil Jews which he describes in various terms such as locusts (never directly of course but by inference)? The fact that he attacks the Queen of England who's not Jewish, doesn't mean he's not anti-semitic.
A while ago, we used to denounce the Episcopalians as Episcopagans. I remember we used that issue to show how we attacked Christians as well as Jews. I haven't seen that issue in the LaRouche pubs site that often over the past 20 years although certainly many Christians don't particularly care for the Episcopals because of their positions on gays and women in the clergy etc.
Like xlcr4life says, people can do a lot of good just helping out in their school districts to ensure their kids get a good and enriched education and be doing more than all the cadre school classes taught by Schlanger, etc.
05-21-2007, 11:00 AM
As to the validity of Lyn's ideas, though you speak with the voice of angels, if you have no charity, to paraphrase the Bible. How can someone be seriously concerned with living conditions in the Third World when he treats his membership like crap. Yes, sacrifices are sometimes necessary even for worthwhile causes, but before you give your life and sanity over to a cause, you better have a good idea what that organization really stands for. I can say having had twenty years or more in the org. up to the eighties, I never saw anybody that was actually helped by an action that Lyn took if it didn't mean something in it for the organization and Lyn in particular.
You can be active in politics without being in a cult and be involved in movements that don't necessarily demand a suspension of critical thinking.
And mp87, don't you think it odd that Lyn seems to dramatize the so-called evil Jews which he describes in various terms such as locusts (never directly of course but by inference)? The fact that he attacks the Queen of England who's not Jewish, doesn't mean he's not anti-semitic.
A while ago, we used to denounce the Episcopalians as Episcopagans. I remember we used that issue to show how we attacked Christians as well as Jews. I haven't seen that issue in the LaRouche pubs site that often over the past 20 years although certainly many Christians don't particularly care for the Episcopals because of their positions on gays and women in the clergy etc.
Like xlcr4life says, people can do a lot of good just helping out in their school districts to ensure their kids get a good and enriched education and be doing more than all the cadre school classes taught by Schlanger, etc.
05-21-2007, 01:33 PM
Oh, By the way. Did any of you guys know Tom Arnoll? I met him up at Humboldt State. That's where he lives now. He left the movement after Larouche went to jail. I was showing my friend Gora some animations that the lym did on Kepler and Tom immediately knew I was talking about Larouche. I had a 5 minute chat with him and he gave me his # and website. Unfortunately I lost his card he gave. He was a really nice guy.
He knew Bruce director, Ted Andromidas and a few others. He told me that the movement thought he was an agent so he left. Whether That's true I'm not sure about. He also knew Jeffrey Steinberg and Phil Rubinstein.
05-24-2007, 03:15 AM
Hi everyone, I used to be a member of the LYM but dropped out. I've been reading your posts and have recognized a lot of the problems I encountered myself; especially the way the boomers are treated, and off course as, jmp8 points out, the horriffic living conditions. I was only member for about 6 months, but still I've used a lot of time afterwards to process all the new impressions and ideas I was exposed to. Like jmp87 I'm still inspired by some of the core ideas, and also the vigor and virtue og some of the youth members. On the other hand I totally recognize the cultish feats that seem to permeate the org. Contrastng the passionated intellectuals, wanting to make a difference, I saw deeply emotionally disturbed kids´who were more or less clinging on to LHL's fatherly figure, and would cite him all the time without actually thinking critically on their own; 'Lyn says this, Lyn says that' therefore its right. The reason I left was that I, first of all, was unsure of the truthfulness of the theories I was presented to - here especially how history was presented, which I found contained a lot of contradictions. Secondly I kept asking myself: what are the long term effects of this movement on its members? And when I saw these phone teams, composed of middleaged people, calling all day, 6 days a week, I could vividly imagine how these people once were young and full of good pretensions, like the youths, but now were stuck in this obvious miserable condition - a lot of them just looked like they were worn out. This was not the principle of 'the general welfare', promoted in the campaigners. Although I've left, I still have some contact with the movement, mainly because im trying to figure it out. How it works - and if I should support it or not. You've all been through it, and it obviously has left som deep scars in your souls. I myself am very affected by the experience and I think about it daily; It really was a turning point in my life, and In many ways I felt very connected to what it means being a human being - as opposed to the extremely superficial reality of popular youth culture today, of which I was a part. This sense og humanity is something I still cherish and is grateful for. The most fundamental discovery I made, was that life is not some relativistic soup, were one opinion was as good as any other - there is such a thing as quality, were one way of thinking supersedes another because it's based on truer axioms than the other; implicitly - that truth exists and is attainable by humans; if they seek it rigoriously and open-minded. For me, this was a wonderful idea that actually gave my existentialistic life, some sort of direction and ground for optimism. This is a grand paradox for me: how can something that brought me insights and true joy, also seem like a freakish cult that is destroying lives? XLC4life mentioned an ex-member, Zubrin I believe, who apparently has specialized in Mars or something. Didn't he get something good out of the org? I mean, is the organisation really bad in all respects, and doesn't it also depend on the individual that joins?
Excuse my english - or at least the grammar - its not my main language!
05-24-2007, 06:41 AM
Akka, I can see from your post that you went through quite a transformation and fortunately you managed to retain your sanity being in for less than a year. Clearly, people join an organization like the LYM because they are dissatisfied with what they see around them and would like to see changes. And there is certainly much to be said about the banality of much of popular culture both today and in our day (the boomer generation). But then again popular culture was never equated with higher culture even Lyn likes to pretend that in the old days everybody studied Shakespeare, Goethe, Schiller, etc.
The thing about Lyn is how he cloaks himself in the authority of others who actually have made great contributions whether in arts, politics, math, etc. Then he construes vast machinations to show how the bad guys (whether called Aristotelians, Synarchists, Babylonian whore supporters, dionysians or what ever) are trying to stop whatever machination Lyn is perpetuating at the moment. The key thing is that you retained a sense of independent thought that made you look a little bit behind the shadows in the cave. When people give into anything uncritically, then they get trapped into cult thought. For example, Lyn likes to praise Plato, but ask if he really wants anyone in the organization examining the apriori assumptions behind his axioms and negate them which is the method behind Plato's dialogues.
I would agree that getting out of the organization doesn't mean you have to just become apolitical or uninvolved in seeking change. I think there are many activities and groups that may espouse ideals at least partially in line of what you are looking for that don't demand the total sacrifice of your identity.
05-24-2007, 10:20 AM
Akka, In regards to being political after the movement it's absolutely possible. More than possible. Right now I'm meeting With Henry Waxman, The representative of Los Angeles County to discuss The possibility of constructing a maglev train from San Diego to Seattle. I also wrote a pamphlet up in Humboldt demanding the impeachment of Cheney and citing the violations on why he must leave. I wrote numerous other pamphlets as well talking about different discussions.
It's been a year since I've left the movement and am now friendly with almost all the members. Whether its a cult or not is a tough question because there are things that they do that are legitimate. 2 of their members got elected to the democratic party recently and many of their ideas are quite sound. For example, I've always known that Al gore is a Genocidal beast ever since I've read what he states in his book, Earth in a Balance that "the populations of human beings must be reduced to 2 billion" Now if it was just a mad man stating that then who cares but this guy is trying to enact policies based on this. The most densely populated areas are in Europe yet Gore doesn't want to kill Europeans. He just wants to kill Africans and Latin Americans. the only movement that I can think of that is really preventing gore from winning this fight are the Larouchies. There is no such thing as overpopulation. That is a fascist policy that was constantly preached by Hitler himself with the "Liebenstraum" policies. Meaning living space for the Aryans. AL Gore wants to kill all the Africans and other ethnicities that aren't caucasian because hes a sick <font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font>. It's impossible to explain insanity.
Now, even though they do extraordinary political and philosophical work, does not excuse the way they treat the older members and and also the living conditions. They could easily increase the budget no more than just possibly 500 bucks per office and all the members could eat comfortably. I mean after all, they always over spend on pamphlets anyway and we would always get frustrated when we would have January pamphlets still in the office while its October. Thus we overspend on the pamphlets and don't spend enough on the food.
I would say akka is Go back to school but bring the best of Larouche's Ideas with you. For example, I had a lot of fun talking about Riemaninan Geometry with a math Professor at the college I attend ,Humboldt State University. Both me and the professor had a blast discussing the ideas. I think it was because I was making the discoveries on my own rather than just being fed it.
I live in Los Angeles Right now until Most likely late august. What local where you in. I was in the L.A Local
Feel free to email me: email@example.com
05-24-2007, 01:23 PM
Many, perhaps most, of the people who join the organization are good, idealistic, principled people ready to sacrifice themselves for a good cause.
It is precisely because they have those qualities that they are so easy for LaRouche to exploit and loot and brutalize. The older members joined when they too were perhaps 20, 23, something like that--out to change the world, to do the right thing, to know the Good.
Now they're the object of scorn and contempt and vicious attack. LaRouche sucks the vitality out of people and throws them away. The Baby Boomers then, the LYM now, were kept isolated from their families, worked into the ground, exhausted, incapable of thought--psychologically beaten up (Beyond Psychoanalysis was just the beginning). And they went along with this brainwashing and ego-stripping being done to other memebrs, too.
Abortions as policy? All the time. Go back and read LaRouche on "mother's fears," or read "Whoa Boy," or--on and on.
Borrowing money from elderly people and never repaying it, so that they were virtually destitute.
Driving people to suicide. Ken Kronberg was 21 or 22 when he joined the NCLC, and brilliant. His life was destroyed, but he wasn't the only case, just the most terrble case. There is a long, long list of people who had breakdowns and never recovered. Kronberg isn't the first to commit suicide, either.
There's been a lot of human misery in Lyndon LaRouche's organization over the past 4 decades.
And he doesn't know anything either, in fact. Not about Kepler, Plato, Cantor, Riemann...
LaRouche has no ideas about Riemannian geometry by the way--Riemann was the one who had the ideas. LaRouche's big math breakthrough was when he "discovered" at 14 that "Euclid was a fraud." That means he couldn't do plane geometry--not the first schoolboy to have that problem.
Go back and read LaRouche's Dialectical Economics (written under the name L. Marcus). Look for Liebniz in there.... Oops. Look for Plato. Hmmm. It's all Kant and Marx and Descartes and Hegel, all the guys who are the Bad Guys now.
LaRouche is (his favorite word) a labile superficial thinker who actually believes he is the Only One in the Universe (does he think he's God? Well, what about his infamous Third Trial of Socrates?)
So by all means, go to school, enjoy the life of the mind, live with the great ideas, do something to make the world better for posterity--but FORGET ABOUT LAROUCHE.
05-24-2007, 01:47 PM
Hi, Thanks for the advice. I am studying at uni right now, and have been doing it for some time. In the org there is a conscious idea of how university is basically brainwashing. This, though is certainly not true...I mean off course, there are nutty proffessors and ignorant kids and all that, but the great thing is you can study all the stuff you find interesting - at least in universiy I attend. You'll also be getting a degree you can use later, and, like you said jmp, still be political and make a difference for the better. It is outright silly, in my opinion, not to get an education if you have the chance, even if you sympathize with LYM. You don't know whats gonna happen in the future, and being financially dependent on an organisation is very unwise, as I can understand from this board some of the boomers would probably leave if not they were not dependent financially on the movement, but also the social dependence has a say. Getting an education gives you a firm social network outside the movement AND keeps your family from worrying too much - plus it gives you an ability to se things from more than one perspective. A thing I think Schiller was right on, was when he wrote that one should be a part of society but not a product of it. There is no reason in isolating oneself. Just a little subjective advice.
What you said, Borisbad, is actually what I couldn't swallow; namely, this big hostile overtake of the world by various, and seemingly changing fations. Its not that I don't think conspiracies don't exist, I mean, anyone whose been into politics, knows how agreements and stuff like that gets into place, there is a lot more than meets the eye. But from what I can gather from you guys, meaning the older ex-members, is that LHL has been swithching to and fro all through his career. You say he started out as a trotskyist and was part of this leninist group up until the mid sixties, where he was pushing marxist theories - which at the time probably was popular among the youths - some of you guys joined because of those ideas perhaps. One thing I'd like to know, is whether or not the economic program he was proposing then, is similar to what he thinks now, in terms of more investment in longterm infrastructual prjoects, and a new bretton woods and those kinds o things or was it more like a communistic scheduled economy of sorts?
Another thing I find striking is this idea of antisemitism - which is what freaked my friends and family out. I must admit, I haven't met any racisme what so ever in the movement when I was there, quite the contrary, actually- you know - nobody there talked about race or religions in a judgemental manner - it was the quality of your mind, and spirit which was focused on, which is quite a relief when you come from a materially fixated culture, I might add. It seems to me that there has been a change in that respect, from what you describe with the antisemitism and all that. I couldn't help but notice that you guys were slamming Helga for the 'locust' thing. I don't know anything about the womans background, but I do know that the term 'locust' was actually used by the former SPD finance minister, Müntefering, in his explicit characterisation of the Hedgefunds back in 2005 or so, which he called 'Heuschrecken', meaning 'locusts' in german, and thats when they started using the word in the campaigners; as a reference to Münteferings term.
jmp, I'd rather keep contact on the board for now, and also keep my identity anonymous. No offence ;-)
05-24-2007, 01:59 PM
Do you have a copy of that paper? I wouldn't mind looking it through.
05-24-2007, 03:15 PM
LaRouche's Dialectical Economics, that is.
05-24-2007, 04:03 PM
akka- dialectical economics is on wlym website- larouche (the economist who couldnt complete his economics studies) - has always defended economics based on "physical" (materialist/ marxist) aspect of the production of goods. He was always opposed to financial speculation, trade and consumer-based economies, so were fascists in the 30s. After the financial crash- there was an urge to return to "physical" economy and production. Schacht was a keynesian, so was Roosevelt (it s an intellectual fraud to oppose them, schacht was such a good economist that he gave hitler the means for his war). From that view point marxism, dialectical materialism wasnt far off from keynes... Keynesian and marxist economists would agree with larouches' "big infrastructural projects". There isnt much new about it. Larouche's "big idea" was his attempt to quantify "scientific discoveries" in the production process. He failed. Ever heard of the "larouche-riemann model"? Nope. That was probably his only attempt to be serious and scientific about economics. It was claimed to be "successful" but lyn eventually flushed it...
To answer about antisemitism. Yes most of the members are not antisemites, they ll become eventually by being involved in antisemitic campaigns.
To comment on the "locust" term. Check on the internet. When Müntefering used that term, he faced a barrage of criticism about the potentially antisemtic nature of that term, given Germany's past. What did helga zepp do about it?, she endorsed that term!!!
When the zayed center in Abu dhabi was closed under international pressure, because it had become a center to propagate antisemtism and revisionism throughout the arab world, what was larouches reaction? He defended that center and opposed its closing down!
See no evil? Hear no evil?
05-24-2007, 04:20 PM
I have to agree with akka that i didn't experience any antisemitism either. I've posted some posts about a week ago talking about the topic.
05-24-2007, 04:28 PM
In regards to larouche using Marx and Descartes as good guys back in the day, it doesn't bug me too much. All human being go through development processes constantly,and after all if you read Leibniz's letters the person he politically attacks a lot is Descartes. So maybe Larouche liked a few of Descartes's ideas but then read leibniz and saw some axioms of decartes that didn't fit to be true.
For example, Larouche constantly mentions Descartes and Leibniz and states that the fundamental difference between them is that Descartes is mechanical in his thought and that Leibniz is dynamic.
That's the basis of larouche's idea of creativity: Dynamics or powers. Larouche is not attacking Descartes for the sake of it or supporting Leibniz for the sake of it. He explains his theory thoroughly.
An example of dynamics would be the process of the universe which has an order to it but is also constantly growing thus it's dynamic. Descartes was obsessed with the effects of universal principals but Leibniz poked at actual causation of effects. These are principles such as gravity.
05-24-2007, 04:31 PM
I realised I kind of gave a bad example of dynamical vrs mechanical thought. I guess it's easier to show through examples than an actual definition.
A perfect example would be actually discovering the geometric proof of the pythagorian theorum vrs just copying the formulat a(squared) plus b(squared) = c(squared)
05-24-2007, 05:25 PM
Well I'm excited about next Friday. I'm meeting with my local representative to discuss the possibility of having a maglev train in this state. I hope for the best.
05-24-2007, 06:30 PM
The one statement by Lyndon LaRouche which you will not find in all the millions of words he has gushed forth onto a world indifferent to him: I was wrong. Isn't humility a hallmark of true greatness? Socrates was preeminently humble, but can even Lyn's must ardent adherents claim the same quality in the least degree for him?
Further, Lyn is an almost pathological liar. One of many ways to prove this to yourself is to compare the various autobiographical sketches from each of the past four decades for significant additions and deletions. For example, all of us oldtimers thought Lyn was led to his fundamental discoveries by cutting his teeth in his teens on Kant's antinomies. Now that Kant is "evil" we are told instead that Leibniz informed his worldview at that critical age. Also, he used to be fairly open about his SWP past - until he was courting right-wingers in the eighties and explained that he was working for the government in infiltrating the Left. And on and on and on ...
These are considerations you can independently verify by reference to the LYM website.
P.S. You might also ask your nonracist LYM buddies why the 1978 "Zionism is not Judaism" _Campaigner_ does not appear on any LaRouche website.
05-24-2007, 06:51 PM
I have a lot of homework with my kids and great projects to finish the school year with them, so I will be short. Understand the key concept that differntiates a cult of perosnality like Lyn from a PHD holder of patents in rocket science like a Bob Zubrin.
Lyn knows that with enough bait he can hook you on something. When you work through the LYM or the LC or whatever, you are really only supporting Larouche no matter what you may think you are doing. The progromatic ideas are always grandiose as he uses the shotgun approach to put a pellet in all of your butts to work harder to worship "The Larouche _________ Plan" . Of course this plane always involves an end of the world economy or some other massive conspiracy of EEEEEEEEEEVIL to overcome. On top of that you add nuclear, excuse me Thermo Nuclear war to scare you into staying out a few more hours.
Most plans stand on their own merits and do not require a cult of personality to worship. Lyn's fascination with dictators should clue the yutes on this . Lyn's Mars program is reduced to the usual trillion dollar spending with gold backed bonds and capital spending to make spin offs to grow the economy to create a numerical machine tool based physical economy.
Jesus Christ I can write this stuff myself after Lyn dies and prop him up stuffed in a rocking chair for the yutes.
If you ask a question like give me real numbers, budget projections, environmental impact studies, material and labor spread sheets, accounting and legal issues, jurisdiction of law and anyhting real Lyn has a basic answer. he will smile at you and joke about how he lets the people below him figure that out and laughs you off. I can think of so many conferences where this happened which is why everything is always the same .
Lyn even dragged out the same phrases for you yutes from 30 years ago to get you going around the clock. "A New Dark Ages" will happen.
Please, the yutes were born when the jail door shut on Lyn, I wasn't.
Zubrin's books are based on actual discoveries he made in chemical fuel rockets to make the fuel and and to allow the crew be self sufficient. His examples are of the many explorers who succeded by being lean and smart instead of tryon to carry evrything under the sun which just bogged them down.
This is all because Zubrin is an actual scientist, not a pretend one with a cult of jabronis who dropped out of college. He had to prove and think through every step and listen to every critic to figure out solutions.
He wants to get astronauts to Mars while Lyn wants to get at least 5 K a week to the security scammers who fill his ego with exotic stories about how the oligarchy is debating whether to adopt "The Larouche Plan" to stop the economic collapse.
I ain't kidding yutes which is why you are handing out 10 month old EIRS.
Final word tonight from me is this. A LYM member sent me a collection of briefings which cover a few months. I am slowly preparing a day by day outline for you of what and how The Larouche Method works. When you stick with this cult instead of the real world, your critical thinking is being eroded.
Your friends are real close to you and after you leave you will be still close to them. It is sort of what happens when you are in prison for a few years and have the same cell mates. You bond and will have memories to share with others so they do not go to this prison of sorts.
Lyn knows it is a cult and the yutes don't, that is why he is the boss.
05-25-2007, 03:18 AM
Sancho, the "Zionism is not Judaism" Campaigner is still available online on the lym website at http://wlym.com/pages/campaigners77-85.html
05-25-2007, 05:09 AM
The thing about LaRouche is not that he evolved from being a Cartesian to being a Leibnizian. The thing about LaRouche is that he lies about his intellectual history (and everything else).
So he used to say that he discovered Descartes and Kant, etc., when he was 14. Now he says he discovered Leibniz and Plato when he was 14. The fact is, based on the content of what he writes about all these people, he never read any of them. (Although someone who knew him in the old, old days says he did read Kant's Critique of Practical Reason--that's the short one--never the Critique of Pure Reason.)
Mostly, my source says, he spent his time watching TV--especially "Mission: Impossible." And THAT'S where all those conspiracy scenarios come from? Aha!
This was easy for him to do, because he was being supported by his then-wife.
05-25-2007, 08:48 AM
People who study history tend to keep track of the myriad changes that Lyn went through from the 60s when many of us encountered him,until today. The problem is not that he evolved, but rather that he refuses to ever admit that he could ever be wrong or that his views could be inconsistent. His histories are like those of Stalin when he rewrote the history of the Bolshevik Party and first eliminated any references to Trotsky and Zinoviev, and then, after he attacked the rightists, he discarded Bukharin. Of course, Stalin could get the Communist Parties at one minute to go from endorsing the Hitler-Stalin Pact as an alliance against Western Imperialism, until Hitler attacked the Soviet Union, and then get the Communist Parties to support the popular fronts with the liberals against the Nazis.
And yes maglevs sound good, and I believe it's definitely true that the US has undercapitalized its infrastructure since the 60s (the time of the great space program). And it would be nice to have leaders who could promote grand ideass like fusion, etc. However, Lyn's approach is to use them as a technocrat would, dreaming up huge ambitious programs with no idea of how to generate the investments, create the capital, examine the environment, etc. (as xlcr4life points out). Nor does he ever take into account things like localist interests that any real politician would have to look into (i.e. unions v. business, farmers v. business, etc.). Everything fits into a beautiful ideal plan that he designs but leaves to others to put together (again as xlcrer points out). Stalin tried it with his 5 year plans, as did Mao, and these 5 year plans never worked out because they totally ignored the realities of real people. That's why Lyn's ideas could never be imposed in the real world, or could only if there was some grand world dictator (albeit one with a golden soul) to impose his worldview over everyone with their local and parochial interests.
05-25-2007, 08:48 AM
LaRouche's concept of dynamics--hence the LYM journal title of Dynamis--is based on a series of misconceptions, too. He contrasts it with energy--energeia--in some totally mystical way based on the Greek, but not knowing what the words mean in Greek. Meanwhile, Jonathan Tennenbaum, who tried to give this black-and-white Manichean view some semblance of credibility by writing stupid glosses with a nod to the Greek but not much more, dropped out with the rest of the old Europeans.
As for Leibniz and Descartes--if anyone had studied Descartes as thoroughly as LaRouche claimed to have done, he would have known that Leibniz and Descartes were opposite numbers. Not credible that he "discovered" that well-known fact 40 years after he "discovered" Descartes at 14 in his early version of "My Life." So that theory of (LaRouche's) evolution doesn't work.
05-25-2007, 09:32 AM
larouche's "discovery" of leibniz was a joke. He claimed to be a leibnizian when he dropped Marx by the end of the 70s and had to replace him by something new (not hegel or kant of course). He once told the story to his gullible adepts (like myself) that he just discovered by accident some of his old notebooks he wrote when he was 12 or something and he then realized how much a leibnizian he was!!! Strange that, until then, he had "forgotten" that crucial aspect of his intellectual life... These notebooks of course never existed.
05-25-2007, 12:10 PM
Yeah I'll Admit, Lyn sometimes doesn't describe the specifics of his proposed recovery such as what you said above: Pricing, land ownership, environmental problems etc. His members however usually do the more specific research.
For example, When I was in the movement Lyn would reference tons of projects and thinkers and the members would do the research on them. It might be because larouche wants the members to make the discovery on their own. A perfect example of this would be Bruce Director's work on the mathematics.
05-25-2007, 02:11 PM
A call from the province...
To <u>jmp87</u>: Did you get my point on the diagonal of the unit square? sqrt(2) is not rational, and I suppose that even LYMers accept this.
And to all of you: What can be said about the ongoing baby boomer purge when it comes to a local organization like the Swedish branch? The leadership of the Swedish org today consists of two babyboomers (born soon after WWII) and the rest of the org consists of some LYMers (in their early 30's, still at the university, living with their mothers) whose enthusiasm seems to be fading constantly.
05-25-2007, 02:36 PM
Thank you, shadok, for the correction. Some of us here had noted its ommission some time ago, but I hadn't bothered to check within the past six months to see if it was provided.
I have spoken about the perpetual mendacity which characterizes the organization as a whole and every member in it - including me, when I was in. Another salient feature of the whole LaRouche operation is its persistent hatred. A foretaste of Hell can be had by any involvement with this group, whether as the hater or as the hated or as both. There are always targets either without or within the organization: everyone is kept to a good boil over something always. I carried that trait for a long time after my separation from the Labor Committees, so it is something for you ex-LYMers to watch out for too. LaRouche not only poisons your mind and character, but also your heart. This has been my experience, at any rate.
By the way, the intellectual workflow works in the opposite direction: members prepare studies based upon their own hard work which Lyn then appropriates and assembles into some Twilight-Zone-Joseph-Cornell-style agglomeration which has little if any bearing on reality - with just as little credit given to the original researchers. Perhaps someone in the organization can do a little investigation to determine whether any _Mission Impossible_ episode employed a plot-device involving Cuban frogmen.
05-25-2007, 07:23 PM
The Cuban frogmen theme or meme came from the movie that was shown on the airliner on which Carol and Chris White flew back from London to the U.S. in December 1973. When Chris, who was not brainwashed, but just upset and freaked out, started mumbling about frogmen--when he and Carol were at Lyn's apartment after arriving in U.S.--Lyn went bananas and started screaming that this was an assassination plot against him.
When C&C tried to say it was the movie that was shown on the airliner, Lyn would have none of it. He didn't sleep for five days after that--crazed, manic, hysterical at the "threat." Not the kind of guy you want to look to for leadership.
For jmp87--Lyn just doesn't KNOW anything. That's what you have to grapple with. He is ignorant, but there's no one to check him, or counter him, because everyone is totally supine, and whatever he says is right because he said it.
So no, he's not doing this so people can make their own discoveries. He babbles like this because his mother told him (I have a source for this) that he's the most important person in the world and all his thoughts have tremendous weight and so he just knows it's true.
05-25-2007, 08:26 PM
What's of high interest to me is the human propensity to be gulled by charismatic figures. Of course the metal-detectors and security guards and buzz about the Railroad, did much to augment this. Lyn or his retinue concocted the idea that the Authoritarian Personality researches of Hannah Arendt---in which she examined the issue above--- were actually a PLOT, to "keep a new FDR from emerging." And we all know who that New FDR is/must be.
It appears that as we speak, the ideological basis is being laid for... LAROUCHE IN 2008!! A construct of "ungovernability" in the US and Western Europe is emerging in the new rhetoric coming out of Lyn and the organization. Into the coming breach and "rupture of normal politics", cometh Lyn---again. Much of what he says bespeaks his feverish desperation for power, which must grow more urgent by the week as he nears the end.
Lyn's volcanic and ceaseless rhetorical productions would be astounding for a man of any age, much less 84. The quality is generally appalling both in style and in substance; but he is still fun to follow, in sort of a germy-gadfly way. One must admire his incredible tenacity. What turned me off, most, was the abusive contempt by my NC towards me and the phone team: "You are all treating Lyn like <font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font>!" --- and the vastly overliberal use of the "Fascist!" insult. (Methinks he doth protest too much; most of the people Lyn dislikes seem to be "technically a fascist." ) The wild paranoid flights of rhetoric, the phantasmagoric conspiratorial constructions... Amazing--- but woe to those who swarm around his flame.
05-25-2007, 09:02 PM
I joined up in the period when the focus was more on Schiller. Eventually I came to find his thought pretty watery but there was a core of interest there, with the Universal History and species consciousness notion. I knew in the old days, "We were all commies," as one of the original hold-ons once put it to me; namely that the "marxian" was the original core. But it seemed that now the mission of the organization was to be the cadre force spreading, not socialist consciousness, but something like Schiller's species consciousness. I thought that Lyn had outgrown the early silliness and matured. "We grew up," as another of the original member hold-ons put it to me. True, there was no mention of Leibniz or very little in the early writings, and thus Lyn was frauding it, but I looked the other way and rationalized it based on a "greater good" that we were now doing.
As my time in the org wore on and the LYM thing became the new construct I found myself in growing disenchantment with more and more. I knew that the idea that the American Revolution was run by a few 20 yr olds around Ben Franklin was a gross, laughable simplification. The calumnification of Galileo and Newton had always sort of puzzled me; I thought that in due course Lyn would develop his critique in some coherent way. Bruce Director tried to do this but in the end it is another hideously gross distortion. It is perhaps the most interesting one because it purports to be the core of a "new scientific revolution."
05-25-2007, 09:31 PM
Lyn prefers expedient polemics to real history. The simplistic, fetishized reading of Kepler ("Kepler's Uniquely Original Discovery of Gravity"), the ranting and ignorant calumnies vs some few selected demonic figures, be they from the history of science or from current politics, bespeak a paranoid mentality. (More than once I was accused of "Cartesian thinking," whatever that is.) I had hoped that some new humanism would spring forth, given Science of Christian Economy and the capax dei/imago viva dei emphasis of the 80's, and the general incorporation of some of the thought of John Paul II in the early-mid 90's. But it appears that Lyn's genius is to take philosophic threads and weave them into confabulations that centralize his place in current history (and all history), confabulations that also ensnare the innocent who wish to make something good and meaningful out of their lives. Thus the "immortality" turn in his recent thought.
Lyn is also a philosophical Romantic, in the sense that he believes, or anyway states, that Man is Good; it is only Society that corrupts. This is straight out of Rousseau, and is a doctrine that implies that corrupting society must be cleansed/transformed. When you couple that with his General Welfare fundamentalism ( just who gets to define that, we wonder...) and his oft-stated sympathies for outright despotic figures--- including for Joe Stalin, whom Lyn has called a "pragmatist", who was "provoked" into revealing his "nasty side" as Lyn put it( Stalin murdered millions) one is left with quite an uneasiness.
05-25-2007, 10:18 PM
Oh I forgot: before I joined I read and researched a huge amount, from the trials, old Campaigners, &c. I was somewhat aware of the anti-jewish angle of the early years, but here again it seemed that Lyn had modulated upward into maturity, with the embrace of the Yiddish Renaissance and such. So during my early years in the org I went around lambasting Ariel Sharon and Israel and the oligarchic conspiracy that had prevented the glorious Oslo Accords from being implemented. Also after 9-11 when we fingered the Jews, I overcame my doubts and reservations and went boldly forth with the vile doctrine that, in effect, the Mossad had run 9-11, maybe using some Arab patsies. If you will remember, Lyn has on more than one occasion directly blamed Dick Cheney for 9-11. He backtracked on it, but the delicious lure of it was too much; later he recanted his backtrack and implied again that Cheney ran the attack.
In the course of my organizing I eventually met people who began to show me the terrible error I was laboring under. I, like Lyn, tended to blame Israel first for all the problems; Israel "needs to undertake a dialogue with the Palestinian people," as Lyn put it recently. I was shocked when I met a Palestinian woman refusenik: no 2-state solution here, not even on the '67 borders; Israel must be utterly destroyed.
After I dropped out I was digging around some more and found the Holocaust denial stuff. A Jewish guy had once told me about it but I denied its existence vehemently. A Jewish physics prof I met warned me about Arafat's conscious-duplicity approach; my (Jewish) NC assured me this was nonsense. Lyn picked up I believe on Marx's confusions about his Jewishness, which Marx translated into overt Jew-hatred. It's always been there in Lyn's system, through all his protean morphings, and though less overt than formerly, it still resides as a sort of continuous substrate below all enunciated doctrine. Thus Lyn's ready embrace of Iranian nukes; thus his fingering of Israel for 9-11.
05-26-2007, 03:00 AM
Speaking of antisemitism (again)... the very fact that the "zionism is not judaism" antisemitic and holocaust-denying Campaigner is made available on their website, plus the fact that neither the org or of course god-larouche ever felt sorry about it, all of this demonstrates that the org remains antisemitic at its core. Period. (in my days this infamous Campaigner was hidden... it s now made public to probably please their arab/iranian "contacts")
Now what about the "jews for larouche" thing? To understand this "ironical paradox" (a sign of humanism, acc to lhl), one has to go back to this famous "Jew" Karl Marx, whose family, as you know converted to Lutheranism. Karl Marx, for racists like the nazis, was considered as a Jew, because of his blood lineage, but Marx was very hostile to the Jews and their "privileges", to say the least. Just read his "The Jewish Question" pamphlet (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/index.htm)! Lyn once wrote his pamphlet "My view on the Jewish question", obviously conforted by his own "marxian/christian" ideology. Marx's antisemitism was not just ideological, it was religious and very personal since he was raised by a father and a family who rejected their jewishness.
Some older LCers from the "socialist" period probably found it intellectually/morally possible to be antisemitic, like these "Jewish" members or just like good ol' Karl... and accomodate with lyn's "higher antisemitism".
There is nothing worse than a "converted Jew" (or any sort of converted by the way): they have to prove they are now "clean" from their sinful origin (I know some Christians who converted to Judaism, and they became such fanatical Jews!) No wonder that the "Zionism is not Judaism" Campaigner was entirely written by... Jews!
Lyn must have been so pleased of himself that day.
05-26-2007, 05:27 AM
One must reiterate this because it endures as the core substrate, behind Lyn's thinking and doctrine. Soon Dean Andromidas will spew another screed: Israel's Gaza bombings are an outrageous atrocity against decency and global common will. Never mind that, even if, IF, an overreaction, what are they an overeaction to? Implicit in Lyn's thought, I'm convinced, is an unstated commitment : Israel is eminently expendable. He on occasion will throw a sop out and say that he believes in a 2-state solution, but the overwhelming majority of his utterances are covertly if not overtly hostile. The Yiddish Renaissance thing was nice, folks, but there is rather more to the story. Lyn picked up on it I would speculate partly to try to adjust his image.
Anti-Israelism is axiomatic. Just in the last few weeks he managed to bizarrely state that somehow the Russian proposal for offshore nuclear plants can show to Israel their errant ways, or some such odd construction. But of course there are other villains and demons to pick up and amplify the rhetorical slack. For a while we were leafletting Sunday morning church services on the evil Moonies. Mobilizing people to roll out of bed way early and go hand out a few thousand leaflets from the 850,000 in the lit room, requires concocting a continuously revolving Great Enemies of Mankind list, the which Lyn alone has courageously identified, who wish to stop Lyn at all costs. The members respond to the fearmongering: despite their preference to stay in bed they roll out and go forth to slay the demons. Or they eat it all up and leap out joyfully. One of the very senior members I used to work with used to drive himself insanely, routinely getting 2-4 hrs sleep, night after night, week after week. The stipends were sporadic; I had to amass a pile of credit card debt to survive, but this member took a night job. he would leave his night job in the morning to go deploy for a few hours, or to steal a couple hours sleep before meeting us at the cardtable. His health must be wrecked by now.
Former original members who have posted confirm that the enemies have changed, but there are always demons: Rockefeller, the UN World Federalist Conspiracy, the Satanists, the Synarchists, the British, the BAC (British-American Cabal), the Moonies, the CCF, Cheney and the Wolfowitz Cabal, Al Gore... Before and around 9-11 it was the British Roundtable crew around HG Wells and William Yandell Elliott, with a complementary selection of American foundations. But through it all, even if not overtly stated, it is Jews that are at the heart of it. "The British put Hitler into power," as Lyn put it once, but with the help of course of Jews. The Zionist-Conspiracies of the 70's and early 80's, notable in the old Campaigners and papers, has been replaced with more subtle formulations, but make no mistake: anti-Israelism is axiomatic. If you doubt it just watch how events in Israel-Palestine are covered and note the slant. Bloody-fanged demons of Satan, you see, plus of course the Jews. Add in the Looming Financial System Collapse and you have a potent ideological mix, quite good for recruiting idealistic dupes like I was.
05-26-2007, 02:43 PM
Chartltonrom, welcome to this forum. We have a need for paople who were in at different times to fill in the blanks so to speak. Though we usually know the story is the same, unlike the present yutes.
Your first post is right on the money.
"It appears that as we speak, the ideological basis is being laid for... LAROUCHE IN 2008!! A construct of "ungovernability" in the US and Western Europe is emerging in the new rhetoric coming out of Lyn and the organization. Into the coming breach and "rupture of normal politics", cometh Lyn---again. Much of what he says bespeaks his feverish desperation for power, which must grow more urgent by the week as he nears the end."
Around May 14th Lyn started the process going for the yutes his comments in the briefing about Sen Chuck Hagel. Read this and see how this is is starting.
LAROUCHE: THE U.S. IS HEADING TOWARDS UNGOVERNABILITY
In response to Senator Chuck Hagel's remarks on CBS's Face the Nation today, in which he stated that he would make a decision on whether to run as an independent for President by the late summer, Lyndon LaRouche made the following comments:
From where LaRouche sits, those who reorganized the presidential primaries to occur early in February of next year don't realize that this move is going to enrage the American voters and create an opening for independent candidacies, which will mean an end to the party system and lead directly to the ungovernability of the United States of America.With the primaries all scheduled in a concentratedd time period early next year the candidates will be isolated from the people whom they will not be able to address directly. Instead, the candidates will end up squabbling among themselves. The non-debates will then merely enrage the voters. Hagel, LaRouche said, will exploit this rage against the
major political parties. The result of this process could then be to reduce the United States political system to a condition of
ungovernability such as already exists in Great Britain, in Belgium, France, etc. LaRouche continued that if these stupid jerks are crazy
enough to accept the early primaries, the resulting rage on the part of the voters could lead to the circumstances under which an
independent candidacy could be the deciding factor in the outcome of the general election. The Democratic and Republican parties are engaged in a process of breaking themselves up.
LaRouche said, Look at Europe. There, the existing parties are losing it with this kind of behavior. There is a pattern of impotent governments with no clear leading parties throughout all of Western and Central Europe. And now the same thing is in the
process of occurring here in the U.S. as well.
05-26-2007, 02:51 PM
This was written by Will Wertz and David Cherry. For Wertz, Larouche always sat in the chair at the desk and had the best bunk when they were cell mates in prison. So when Wertz writes about where larouche sits, he is a recognised expert.
This briefing slug basically has all of the elements which the remaining yutes have not discoverd. We have the basic old "end of ______ " which here is the end of the party system and of course total chaos in the US as both parties cease to exist. In this massive orgy of civil unrest and disintegration of all order, the voters will look for an independent candidate to save the now ending financial system. For old times sake Lyn throws in the "impotent" line for the yutes to ponder as leafletts pile up in either the office or the trash can after being handed out.
Next is a standard Lyn formula where the pivitol monet to save humanity will be decided by .005% of the vote, which of course means that you need to raise 7 million dollars. That 7 million dollars will buy you .005% which will not be enough, but enough to save humanity and the circle of Lyn is complete.
All that is need is a running mate who will have their life ruined when all is said and done. Yutes, ask your NC to tell you about what happened to Billy Davis after he ran with Lyn. Lyn also is doing something at an alarming rate in the briefing for the yutes . He writing and doing cadre school speeches where he is THE person to save the US and the world from HELL. Check out what Lyn has been very vocal about after the May 14th briefing appeared yutes.
It is not enough to resue the old "New Dark Ages" gimmick on you, but now you are raising money and bodies to stop the Children of Satan from creating Hell when the world economy collapses.
Yutes, you can't stop HELL with 22 dollars raised at card table shrine deployments. }
I hope everyone is having a great Memorial day weekend and respecting the Holiday. One of the first things which hit me like a sledgehammer after I left was something called a three day weekend. Sick days, vacation days, holidays .
Sleeping late with your kids is sublime yutes.
05-26-2007, 11:37 PM
Two comments by the recent Larouche Youth Members, who are sort of stepping outside the cave, stand out to me:
- 1: Are you sure Larouche knows about whats being done to the older members?
- 2: For example, When I was in the movement Lyn would reference tons of projects and thinkers and the members would do the research on them. It might be because larouche wants the members to make the discovery on their own.
Huh. For #1, Even I, a few months ago, could flip through a Larouche pamphlet and see the numerous denigrations of "baby-boomers" and the glorifying references to "leaders" of the "LYM" (one photograph stuck on the same page, or close to, for example Bill Clinton's and -- maybe the electoral leader of a party Larouche set up in Russia?) and read between the lines. Other than that, I have seen posters here refer to the "If only Larouche knew" syndrome.
As for #2, I laughed out loud. Seriously? I don't know how to unwind that rationalization.
The other items, the rationalization of his ideological change -- (My public library does indeed have Lyn Marcus's "Dialectical Economics". I don't really know what my motivation would be to plow through it) -- it is a Mad Libs game, pure and simple.
Which makes this statement:
I would say akka is Go back to school but bring the best of Larouche's Ideas with you.
answerable as: Fine. Bring the Larouche ideas that are not Larouche's with you, and delve beyond the superficial level that it seems he tends to teach you. The ideas that are actually Larouche's, toss away. And whatever you do, don't mention Larouche to your professors, or be prepared for them to set you straight.
05-27-2007, 06:16 AM
"But Howie, didn't you know that all the professors in the country have an anti-Lyn litmus test that's part of their getting in to academia?"
One of the senior members once said this to me. The professoriat, you see, is deeply implicated in the system of thought control whereby the oligarchy runs history. The physicist and scientific community constitutes a "Babylonian priesthood" where silly practices like peer review and "blackboard mathematics" prevail.
Paranoid thought is rampant in the organization, and not just with Lyn. On election night in '04, when Kerry had won New Jersey or something the above-mentioned senior member said to me excitedly, "This is going to be seen as our victory!" Supposedly Lyn's yutes yodeling outside the Democrat's convention hall in Boston, had completely transformed Kerry and the Party. The '04 convention has thus taken on the status of a sacred event in the organization's mythos, where the vast power of the LYM was rolled out to such immense effect and Lyn became a "serious force" in the party. Equal parts delusion and toadying: Lyn has tried vigorously in the last few years to suck up to Bill Clinton and play for some pull in the Democratic Party. A lot of his recent initiatives can be explained by this. Also remember that it's standard operating procedure to demonize and fearmonger: we must stop Judge Roberts and Alito from making us go Nazi and invade Poland. Continuous Demon Rollover is required, which has the normal effect of mobilizing the members to get out there and bring in some LPAC checks. If you fail, you are impotent. Quite a system...
Of late the youth have shown their might by getting California's and Massachusetts' state Dem conventions to actually go on the record endorsing impeachment. Wow! I bet that was really tough. It's interesting to try to forecast who might be the next demonic fiend.
05-27-2007, 07:33 AM
The Boston 2004 Democratic Convention is an important myth indeed.
LaRouche wrote something or other for the LYM intervention there, and it was rushed through production at PMR and rushed up to Boston--Ken Kronberg worked on it himself, to make sure it got there. Nancy Spannaus called up LaRouche and tried to get the word on how many he wanted. He mumbled something.
When the pamphlets or leaflets or whatever they were arrived, there weren't enough, or something. LaRouche went crazy, denouncing Nancy Spannaus primarily (Kronberg only by association)for sabotaging his Presidential campaign and destroying the world, etc. To this very day, he insists that there were Dark Forces on the NEC willfully trying to sabotage his campaign yadda yadda--all because someone asked him how many he wanted printed and then went with the information he gave them.
However, The Right prevailed, and even though leaders in his own organization were trying to destroy his campaign, the presence of LYM singing Jesu, Meine Freude outside the Democratic Convention turned the tables. By the end of the convention, LaRouche had been brought in at the top of the Kerry campaign, Bob Shrum and the "Kennedy people" were out, and LaRouche was running Kerry's campaign. Wow.
This one-way romance was dashed quite recently, when Kerry said to a couple of LYMers at some public event, "LaRouche is nuts." Ouch. It's like when, back in 1988, then-Presidential candidate George H.W. Bush said, in response to a question in Iowa or somewhere, "LaRouche? Isn't he in jail yet?" Not then--but soon.
05-27-2007, 08:20 AM
Lyn has a new document in process, "The Rules of Survival" apparently, wherein it will doubtless be shown how indispensable Lyn is to the current strategic situation, and how he must be brought in to guide us forward if the world is not to be plunged in to the New Dark Age. Perhaps there are five hundred or a thousand previous papers treating of this theme. We hope this one is of the same illustrious quality as previous gems like the Dirichlet treatise. Maybe one of the youth could correct me if I'm in error, but I think the premise of that one was basically that the mathematician Dirichlet's work proved how critical is the existence of the LYM.
Lyn's editors maybe can't heal his tortured, garbled unreadable prose anymore. In the 90's his papers and books were much better. In the last couple of years even the published stuff has gotten increasingly unreadable. Where Lyn really shines though is in the unpublished briefing notes to the members. There we encounter really really horrible, slapdash junk, sentences so brutalized and syntax so tortured that you have to think he's doing it on purpose. But the true adept/member/LYM leader/acolyte pores over it as the latest holy writ.
05-27-2007, 10:50 AM
Thinking about the anti-Semitism question and the appearance of positive reference to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the 1978 edition of "Dope, Inc."
My information is that the person who put that reference into "Dope, Inc." was Paul Goldstein--he and Jeff Steinberg were deeply involved in the writing of the book.
Now this was around 1978--Goldstein was maybe 29, not super-bright, and a self-hating Jew--so you can see how he might have stuck that in there without knowing that that is a notorious marker of Nazi anti-Semitism.
But LaRouche was 56 or so, had lived through World War II (and, he claims, been in the Army during it), and was also supposed to be a genius, deeply educated, etc. There is NO WAY ON EARTH he could not have known the significance of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion--or, if he didn't know, then--Crikey--we may be forced to the conclusion that he is NOT a genius, NOT deeply educated, NOT well-informed. So he has the choice: Does he want to come across as a rabid, psychotic anti-Semite, or a moron?
He winds up coming across as both.
The publication of "Dope, Inc." marked the moment when the ADL went ballistic over LaRouche.
There were a few people in the LaRouche organization who also went ballistic--a woman who was knowledgeable about Russian history and knew the provenance of the Protocols (initials BF for those who remember her), and Kronberg's wife Mollie, who knew a lot about the Nazis. They carried on about how could this have been put in a LaRouche book, but the "leadership" of the org just shrugged.
05-27-2007, 11:11 AM
re Paul Goldstein
when I was just a new recruit, involved in so called "intelligence", Paul candidly told me we used to have a good relationship with the ADL and that "suddenly" they attacked us, pretending he didnt know why...
There is a concept that lyn liked to use and it applies to goldstein and larouche himself: that of these "people who start believing in their own lies", ie the "self-brainwashed."
If think this could explain a lot about the org. itself. I think that Paul Goldtein managed to convince himself that he really didnt know why the ADL was after the org!
05-27-2007, 11:29 AM
I had figured Larouche's toadying up to Clinton as a pretense to relevance, imagining a Clinton -- Dean (whom I notice he generally demonizes) split in the leadership of the Democratic Party and choosing a side where he can feign influence. Howard Dean, meanwhile, came to his position off of the strength of grassroots Democrats support, which I always figured in Larouche's narrative was a reason to line him up with big money interests ("Synarchists", or... International Jewish Bankers, but one would have to pause to catch that) and have Larouche as the "real" grassroots figure ... with the blessing of Clinton. But I've never been able to tell if I'm just overthinking that whole thing.
I have noticed that the quality of his literature has degenerated, and this all explains the reasoning. What I've seen produced in the 1980s are more coherent, or semi-coherent. At the very least they manage to maintain the theme of the pamphlet and sustain the thought. What is being produced now almost seems to me to have the feeling of the workers mailing it in and going through the motions. The themes on the cover -- oh, I don't know, "Moving Past the Post-Truman Era", or whatever -- never pull through the entire pamphlet, and it ends up being stuffed with simply the transcripts of the last handful of "Historic" Internet conferences Larouche has made, unrelated to whatever the pamphlet is supposedly about. I don't really want to delve too deeply into it, because I never actually read these things, and have taken to glancing through them in search of relatively specific items... when I see them dumped in bulk, as they always are, at the end of the Larouchites' excursions.
I suppose we should all move our troughs to another thread. This one is 650 plus posts long, and the past threads have been closed after 500.
05-27-2007, 11:53 AM
The thing to realize about LaRouche pamphlets is that he dictates the contents, and he dictates the title on the cover, and all the rest. So the absence of sustained thought is all his. No one else would dare come up with a title or contents or theme...
05-27-2007, 12:25 PM
I created a new thread we can use named "LaRouche Continued." Just start posting there.
06-08-2007, 08:38 AM
OK I have read plenty here this is a very elaborate devious trick indeed whether it is intentional or accidental. The trap is one of deduction. I will explain what too many from the LYM fall trap into as they walk into this domain of self perpetuated deceit!
Any and all X members are such because they really did not learn one key fundamental. How to come to understand something to be true! Do you take popular opinion? All those opinions CANT POSSIBLY BE WRONG, right? How about the accumulation of a whole bunch of facts that will get to the truth right? Because the simple tally of more facts will show an aggregation of evidence which always leads us in the right direction? Right?
Lets say we dont have telescopes and are living in the time of the ancients. We in an investigation step outside and collect an aggregation of facts (i.e. observations) of the sun in the sky, From When the sun rises to when it falls. We have compiled a twelve hour data sheet. Our senses demonstrate as well as the massive accumulation of facts that the sun rotates around the earth? are we right?
The problem is merely one that is an elementary one. Instead of taking someone's word Whether Larouche's or anyone else's one has to investigate where that person got their understanding and knowledge from, and whether that source had their investigation set in the real universe. Also what is the history of where that person understood what they did?
Since the real universe is invisible (Because ideas like gravity and Universal least action are every where in the universe) to the senses, how does one comprehend something invisible, use the invisible part of what makes you human. What is that? Read Plato! Lyndon H. Larouche calls such a process willfull and conscious "Acts of re-discovery"
One then has to realize the type of things the road down this particular path will ultimately take you, is into the realm of philosophy, and metaphysics. In that area one learns the 'parallel pathways' that certain key policies and ideas today run alongside. This is how we as TRUE understander s can place Larouche's reasoning and analytical skills at the forefront of science and political economy. Not because we are blind as soooo many have purportedly fallacious stated but because those who have done their own independent work come to understand, what many pass as 'code speak' whenever Larouche speaks!
Every single X member who has walked into this forum has fallen prey to ultimately that. They have read Lyndon Larouche's words but don't understand how he reached them. Therefore no matter what they themselves can profess as good intentions and good sounding policies, they fall short in then re-connecting that to the invisible in a transcendent way.
They then make further folly with trying to DEDUCTIVELY explain away their REASONING! The example of Kheris is far too appalling! She asserts what she asserts with relative ease of words. She truly has some issues to grapple with. Her claims along with all who negatively attack Larouche have no real intention to find out the truth or they would have asked Lyn themselves Here Is a Link! firstname.lastname@example.org
06-08-2007, 08:40 AM
The XLC er and other similar types are highly laughable! They tell you all they come from the inside and have an understanding of how certain aspects of the organization are run then drop a lot a bit of fiction, no that was too kind LIES, then you all eat it up! None of you have gone through a process of understanding to see how these Naysayers got to their conclusions!
I wont even address the Naysayers themselves the reason is simply one does not try to dialogue with Satan!
The only people that I am concerned about are those poor souls who really do think Larouche runs a cult and are being massively deceived. When it is them who unfortunately are deceived because they can so readily talk about something and they really don't KNOW (meaning comprehension of origin)about!
Lastly remember, If you are truly intent on understanding what Larouche is saying stop taking second hand opinions! Go back and read what he says and then see where he got that then see what you gain from where he got what he talks about! Read Kepler because he starts with the exploration in reality in a REAL way. Then move to read what Larouche says about Kepler.
It is a longer process but that is what it takes to begin to say 1 tenth of what has been posted here since 2003! Remember if opinions are cause everyone's got one, then stop getting "sloppy" second hand because thats pretty disgusting!
Ask Lyn about Anti semitism and bring him quotes, then post discussion here if your really honest
06-09-2007, 10:32 AM
Time for another experiment, another measurement.
Read Plato, read the wonderful dialogues. Look at the questions and the answers. Note the back-and-forth, the give-and-take, the conversational METHOD.
Now look at LaRouche's method of answering questions, his track record of engaging in conversation, relating to other people.
His answers go on for miles and miles and miles. HE talks, YOU listen. This drivel is usually advertised as a "Dialogue with LaRouche"!
It is a perversion of the meaning of dialogue. Has LaRouche ever engaged in a conversation with anyone? Has HE ever asked any questions, or shown any interest in what anyone else had to say?
Platonist? No. LaRouche is a FRAUD.
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