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09-20-2005, 10:44 PM
I figure that you guys might enjoy keeping up on Larouche's latest stuff so I thought I might post it up here for all of you to enjoy.
Please no personal attacks, we all graduated Middle School already right? It wouldn't be too hard to act like it. Please reference all your posts to the rightfull source. If something is taken out of context, expect it to be thoroughly explained. Comment on the policies or ideas that you disagree with and keep the antisemite claims for your melting pot of mud slinging forum above.
09-20-2005, 10:54 PM
INTERVIEW WITH GEN. PAUL VALLELY (RET.)
`We've Got To Bring the
Hammer Down on Iran'
Retired Army general Vallely is currently the head of the Military Committee of Frank Gaffney's Center for Security Policy and a member of the Iran Policy Committee, a gaggle of neo-conservatives formed to promote war and rebellion in Iran. He was interviewed by telephone on Aug. 15 by Bill Jones. In an earlier conversation, Vallely had told Jones that he knew that Osama bin Laden was in Iran, and that Ken Timmerman (author of Countdown to Crisis: The Coming Nuclear Showdown with Iran), had learned from Iranian dissidents in Europe that Iran already had nuclear weapons. "All roads lead to Teheran," Vallely said.
EIR: I wanted to ask you a few more questions on this whole Iran scenario. You indicated that, if push came to shove, and some military action were to be taken, you would recommend a naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz?
Vallely: Yes, the Strait of Hormuz is the chokepoint for going in and out of Iran by sea—oil, imports, whatever, has to go through there. And it would be the most feasible option, if we went that route. It would be that, because then you can basically allow all ships to go in and out except Iranian ships. That would provoke—obviously some kind of a reaction. And the other down side is, of course, whether the Iranian people who would like to see the mullahs go, would put then any kind of a force majeure [extraordinary circumstance] there that would be supportive of that, and not create a lot of negatives. But someone has got to deal with this Iranian issue. Because they're absolutely convinced that they can do anything they want to, including the continued support of terrorism, and nobody's going to do anything about it.
We know the Europeans won't do anything about it. Like I told a couple of groups, I think we're probably going to find for the third time in the last hundred years that we're going to have to bail the French out again, because they don't get it. Britain now gets it. When I was up on the Lebanese border in March of this year, it was apparent, the sightings of Iranians in uniform with the Hezbollah, on patrol. And of course they control and feed the Hezbollah as the grown child of Iran, that it has been.
EIR: And what period of time was this? Before or after the withdrawal of the Syrians?
Vallely: Well, of course when I was there a lot of these things were occurring at that time, including the problems they were having in Beirut. But certainly we know that the only border in the world that is controlled by a terrorist organization is the Lebanese-Israeli border. That's completely controlled by Hezbollah. They've been able to very successfully infiltrate all of the towns and villages in southern Lebanon; they do it by buying the people off, of course. They give them food. They give them money. And of course all that money comes from Iran. Hezbollah is the most potent force in that area, as far as Lebanon is concerned. And I get a lot of intelligence out of Beirut through a couple of Lebanese sources.
So here you've got the situation now with the disengagement from Gaza going on, and we know, we're going to see it anyhow, that's going to become a very large terrorist camp. Hamas is going to control it, not the Palestinian Authority. Hamas is directly supported by Hezbollah. So you have this nexus of terror, that is connected and fueled by Iran and their surrogate, Syria. So what do you do? Nobody can figure where the hell the Administration is going on any of this.
EIR: Maybe they haven't figured it out either?
Vallely: They can't seem to figure any strategy out. I had dinner last night with the Speaker of the House—Denny Hastert was out here last night, and Congressman Dennis Rehberg—we had a fundraiser for him. So I had dinner with eight congressmen, and these were all conservative Republicans, and nobody can figure out where in the hell this Administration is going strategically. There's no Iranian policy, there's no Greater Middle East Policy that's articulated. It's the same rhetoric. So that I'm finding more and more conservative Republicans are trying to figure out, is Bush acting more like his father every day, or what's going on? So it's a real dilemma. I just sense a lot of frustration.
EIR: Unless they do something that they're not telling anybody yet?
Vallely: Well, that's what everybody keeps saying, but there's never any action. I mean, you know, Powell went in to Damascus and laid down things, but there's never any follow-up, never any action taken. And certainly it appears that Condoleezza Rice has hit a wall like Colin Powell did. There's no strong diplomatic effort that we have. Condoleezza Rice goes up and meets with Abbas over there, who's certainly not in any control; Hamas is controlling, not the Palestinian Authority. And she comes out of there again. and then we send conflicting signals to Israel, continually. And Israel is not in good shape over there, politically, as you know, because of the disengagement.
But I do know the Israelis have completed the targetting, for the targets in Iran. And they're prepared to do something. Now, whether they will or not is another question. They know they're the primary target of Iran. And you can see this whole disengagement thing, if it starts going south, and Gaza becomes the terrorist territory, with direct port entry, and entry from the Philadelphia line, the sector between Egypt and Gaza. Now you have clear paths coming in from the sea and from Egypt, and Hamas and Hezbollah, and Iran, of course, will take full advantage of that. You know if we had some clear, strong diplomatic efforts—I see nothing coming out of the State Department. Do you? You're there, but I can see they are doing nothing there that is either aggressive, or dealing with strength.
EIR: Well, I'm sure they're very divided on this issue. I don't know exactly what the internal debates are.
Vallely: Well that's where good strong leadership comes in. Who's the President and who's not? If I'm the President, I can have these debates, that's fine, but sometimes I've got to make decisions, and go forth. But I don't see any decisions coming out. And the attack dogs are always out there on the Democratic side. But there are no attack dogs any more on the Republican side. They've sort of silenced DeLay for a while here. And you find no attack dogs in the Senate or Congress any more. So to me, I'm sitting out here in Montana, and I see a weak Congress, I see a weak State Department. I see the the CIA trying to get on track. We don't even have any good agent intelligence coming out of the Middle East.
EIR: That's been a problem for a long time now.
Vallely: You know, I've got better intelligence coming out of the Middle East. I've got a guy from the Department of Defense that is assigned to me now, an intelligence guy, to process all the information that I'm getting directly out of the Middle East, including the sighting of bin Laden back in November, last year. So, I don't know.
EIR: Now tell me about the options with Iran. You say the Israelis have targetted sites in Iran. There is also talk that the U.S. has also done its own targetting as well.
Vallely: Yes, it has, it's done 81 targets, it's already been done.
EIR: OK. But tell me what do you do with it? Anything they have of importance is obviously buried very deeply. And even some of my Israeli contacts will tell me, "You can't do like Osirak on the Iranian facilities, you won't get to anything important." The facilities are buried much to deep to do that.
Vallely: Well, that's not true. Let's say you do designated strikes against the hardened facilities they have—just the psychological impact of laying down some JDAMs [Joint Direct Attack Munition—free-fall bombs fitted with a guidance system and tail kit] on those sites. You can dig down five or six stories, but I can still close you up. I can block you off. I can get down two or three stories; there's a lot of weapons systems that can close these sites down. You can go ten stories and I still can close you down. The hardened sites don't worry me.
EIR: You're saying you can close them down, and they can't get out.
Vallely: Yeah, there's lots of ways [laughs], you know with a bunker buster, which we've given to Israel, we've delivered those all. They got brand new F-16s that are fully loaded, that we gave them or sold to them.
The Iranians are very smart. And this is where it all started. It was when Carter was so weak, when Khomeini took over, took over our embassy, our weak response there. So, if you go back to the late '70s, Iran has been the pivotal state, along with Saudi Arabia, in fronting a lot of this. And the Saudis will do nothing about the Wahabis, the preachers of hate. Kuwait's made some moves in that area. They won't allow this preaching anymore. They've made some progress.
The other thing we're working on now is the nuclear deterrence strategy against radical Islam, much like we had in the Cold War, where we told the Russians, you know, you launch once, and ten of your cities are gone. OK. Somehow we've got to tell radical Islam, that any indication of one nuclear weapon coming into the United States, and Mecca and Medina become sand. There'll never be another hajj. And they have to have one completed hajj over their lifetime [laughs]. Not that we would do it, but the fact is you have to put the fear of God in them. It's the only thing they understand. Did you read Ken Timmerman's new book?
EIR: I sure did. It's all over the place. Everybody's reading it.
Vallely: Yeah, and Ken and I have been on together, and Ken has his information from different sources than I had. So the question is, what do responsible nations do? We cannot let radical Islam and the Iranians destabilize the Middle East and the world. We just can't do that. They can't continue to destabilize what's going on. So the question is, who has the balls enough to do anything? And there's diplomatic things you can do. Sanctions don't work in the Middle East. That's a farce! We put sanctions on Syria. Hell, they have cash, you can buy anything in the Middle East if you have cash. So sanctions don't mean anything.
EIR: It was also the stance of the Iran Policy Committee that you would try to encourage popular revolt within the country. And obviously there's a lot of discontent with the mullahs. But it seems to me you're dealing with the Shi'a here, you're dealing with a very sensitive type of nationalism which is going to be aroused by this. Even the people who are opposed to the mullahs give their full support to their right as a nation to develop the full nuclear cycle for their energy production.
Vallely: Look, we know the North Koreans were involved with the Iranians. We knew A.Q. Khan in Pakistan was involved with them. We knew about the Libyans. It's all connected. You know, it's not so hard to figure out. It really isn't. And everybody wants to make this so complicated. You change the regime in Iran, you change the whole Middle East. All those other things will tend to fall apart very quickly if they don't have Iranian support. So the question is, how do you do it? You can't depend on the Europeans for anything. I don't even worry about the Europeans. I told the Israelis the same thing: "Don't worry about the damned Europeans. You do what you have to do."
Dore Gold and I worked on a strategy called Defensible Borders, a paper which we put out. That's a good one to read, by the way. It shows how Israel has the right to defend its borders, like anybody else. But I think the downside is, and I think even Sharon knows deep in his mind, that if this thing goes south in Gaza, like we think it will, then they [Israel] will go for a complete occupation of the West Bank and Gaza until every terrorist organization is put out of business. That's the only solution there. And we'll have to see what happens. But I know the Israelis are prepared to take very decisive action militarily, if we see this rise in terrorism there. We have even reports of al-Qaeda being in Gaza now. A report came in, they have cells working in Gaza now with Hamas, as they have been given sanctuary in Iran.
EIR: A pretty hairy situation, it seems.
Vallely: Yeah, and at some point in time you've got to bring down the hammer. If not, we're going to be under this continued terrorism threat. Did you read my book Endgame?
EIR: I just paged quickly through it.
Vallely: Well, read it again. Everything we said in there two years ago is coming true. It all comes back to Iran. And you're never going to solve the Israeli-Palestinian problem until you solve the larger Middle East situation.
EIR: There has been some talk of using tactical nuclear weapons to get at some of these sites.
Vallely: Yeah, that option's there.
EIR: Would that be effective in terms of closing them down? And secondly, would people accept—
Vallely: The fact that you irradiate the area, so there's no access—it's the same thing with irradiating Mecca and Medina. But if they're threatening, which we know, to bring nuclear weapons into this country—we know that's their ultimate goal, simultaneous detonations in New York, Washington, and maybe Chicago or Los Angeles. Just think of what one nuclear, small 20 kiloton weapon would do in Manhattan.
EIR: But what do you think the reaction would be if we used any type of nuclear devices, without having been provoked by their doing something similar?
Vallely: Well, that's why we're thinking the naval thing will really push them to do something stupid. And we hope they do. And then bring the hammer down on them. We know they're going to use them against us. There's nothing wrong with pre-emption.
EIR: But you're dealing with public opinion here. You know there's going to be an outcry over this.
Vallely: That'll happen no matter what you do. So Bush has nothing to lose. Do what he needs to do. American wants leadership. You're always going to have the anti-whatever-whatever. The other key thing is, what I keep telling audiences, that you can't drag wars out. If you go to war, it's gotta be decisive, it's gotta have finality, and it's gotta be done as quickly as possible. If not, the piranha will eat you alive. And that's what happened in Vietnam. We didn't, in Korea, with finality. And so we still have troops there.
The only finality we've seen is with Japan. That was finality.
Patton said, "Don't let the Russians take Berlin." We let that happen, and look what we had: the Cold War, and what they did in the aftermath of World War II.
But we just don't seem to have men of wisdom and strategic vision anymore, that understand. It's like Bush. The biggest mistake that he made, and I said it, at the time I was briefed on the post-Saddam period: We ended up putting in the Coalition Provisional Authority under Jerry Bremer, and that created the problems we have today. And I've had that validated many, many times and by many senior military commanders as well as the Iraqis. We basically ended up putting a State Department organization in charge of a war zone.
At any rate, now we're trying to recover, rather than putting in an interim government that we recommended they do, just like we did in Afghanistan. Bring the army back immediately. Get them on the payroll. Don't create these big bases and the Green Zone, and do all that stuff. I mean, you ought to see it over there in Iraq. It's like a big commissary, big PX's. You got to strike hard, fast, get it over with, bring the enemy to their knees as quickly as possible. You can't drag wars out. We're already beyond the time that we took out Hitler, which was three years and eight, nine months—we took out the Japanese and the Germans. We're now over that.
EIR: And we seem to be stuck there.
Vallely: We won't lay the hammer down on Syria. We know the Baathists. We know they're living up in the Aleppo area of Syria. We know the funding. We know the Damascus pipeline coming out of Russia, through Ukraine and Belarus into Damascus. So they're being fed weapons systems and things coming through that pipeline. And then you've got the pipeline from Iran, working into Lebanon and Syria. And all we hear is rhetoric.
Hey, listen, over a year and a half ago, I would have sent some strong signals into Syria. I'd have taken out ten of the offices in Damascus plus two of the training sites where we know they are, and at 2:00 o'clock in the morning, those things disappear. And at 6:00 o'clock in the morning we have plausible deniability [laughs].
EIR: Well, Bush does sometimes tend to follow in the footsteps of his father, although sometimes he might have indicated some sort of "gumption"?
Vallely: Yes, he has.
EIR: But what about Vice President Cheney?
Vallely: Yeah, where the hell is he at? He ought to be the attack dog. Keep him in the damned closet over there in the West Wing somewhere. I'd make Cheney the attack dog every day! [laughs] You, know, I can't figure it out. Bush has nothing to lose. Nothing to lose. And he won't do anything stupid. But you've got to be aggressive, and if you don't bring these few nations that are causing these problems, supporting terrorism, to task, it's going to just continue and continue and continue. And that's why the Iranians—they know in their own mind that they're not going to do anything. That's why they're being the way they are. They're not dumb.
EIR: The statements they were making yesterday were very tough.
Vallely: You see, you do what you have to do. You don't worry about world opinion, because they're on to the next story in another two weeks, no matter what you do. That's why I told the Israelis, "Do what you have to do to protect yourself. Quit listening to our State Department."
EIR: We'll see what happens now with the Iranian President coming to address the UN, if they allow him to come, that is.
Vallely: Oh, what a farce that is! Do you believe that? The enemy coming into our camp.
 President of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs; he was the 11th Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations. He has written a book, Hatred's Kingdom: How Saudi Arabia Supports the New Global Terrorism, in which he maintains that the ideology prompting Islamic terrorists is rooted deeply in Saudi Arabian history. He claims that Saudi Arabia has become one of the main areas of refuge for al-Qaeda, in addition to the Pakistani-Afghanistan border, and the Iraqi-Iranian border.
09-22-2005, 12:19 AM
What no response? Here the very latest by the LaRouche Crew. Just a preview with the link of course, tell me if it says anything about Jews.
Cheney Revives Parvus
`Permanent War' Madness
by Jeffrey Steinberg, Allen Douglas, and Rachel Douglas
It was never a secret that the ranks of today's Washington neo-conservative war-party are filled with former first and second generation Trotskyists—personified by Irving Kristol, the former Shachtmanite Trotskyist, self-described "Godfather" of the entire neo-con apparatus, and the father of Weekly Standard editor William Kristol. What was ignored was the fact that both they and Vice President Dick Cheney are still fanatically committed to former Bolshevik minister of war Leon Trotsky's doctrine of "permanent revolution," and to the kind of permanent war which Cheney has created in Iraq, and is preparing to launch, very soon, as nuclear-armed warfare against Iran, and similarly permanent warfare against Syria, in South America, and elsewhere as soon, and as often as possible. It is this doctrine, which most historians associate with the name of Josef Stalin rival Leon Trotsky and his followers, which is presently the most immediate threat of mass-murderous violence to the world as a whole.
It is also the leading active threat to the continued existence of the U.S.A. as a constitutional republic, here, at home.
That is the root of the wide-spread failure of most leading circles in the U.S. and Europe to grasp the true nature of the menace which has been unleashed as a result of Vice President Cheney's adoption of a doctrine which the Russian-born British intelligence asset Alexander Helphand, also known as "Parvus," dictated to Leon Trotsky's effort to overthrow Russia's Tsar in the revolution of 1905. What Helphand dictated to his dupe Trotsky, in writing, personally, there at that time, is a doctrine of "permanent revolution/permanent war" which Trotsky himself defended up to the moment of his murder by a Soviet assassin, in Mexico in 1940. That is the policy actually being conducted by Cheney's alleged former Trotskyist, neo-conservative advisors today. That is the the policy which has unleashed the monstrous and worsening catastrophe which Cheney's continued policies, and Cheney's lies to the U.S. Congress, have created, which is moving now to the brink of a new disaster, in the entire region of Southwest Asia today. The facts which more than prove all this are not only clear. The greatest threat to the U.S. today, is the failure of most leading circles here, and in Europe, to understand the vast mass of often overlooked evidence which must be understood if we are to prevent the now financial-crisis-wracked U.S. and the world from being lured, very soon, into an early catastrophe beyond the calculations of most leading circles among governments still today
09-27-2005, 11:20 AM
I like your posts and wish you the best in organizing. I don't know if you were in LA or on the East Coast, where and when I have been in these locations, but maybe you remember me.
How is the mobilizing going?
10-09-2005, 02:45 PM
I do not hold that members of the youth movement are perfect (as I do not hold Mr. LaRouche to be perfect). I have some of the same concerns you have, namely that of finding a useful dynamic between polemicism and personal love. Also, the youth should be a bit more mindful of their own limitations of certain areas of knowledge. Much of the contemporary work in lectures and articles give very good theses, but when someone reads them and claim expertise in the subject, then we run into a problem. It is a problem, but the general respect for study is still maintained and I am confident that with continued study they will realize the situation a bit more clearly. They are on a great path, even with all the inevitable errors that plague us all.
10-09-2005, 11:36 PM
It's not my limitations here, it's LaRouche's and his supporters. You know that, Steve, you told me on the phone. I've read enough of your bull and I don't want to see any more of it here. You're bored in school because you don't know how to think for yourself. LaRouche is not going to help you with that.
On the phone you told me, "You are not alone. If there's one thing you get out of this, just know you are not alone." And here, your posts say, "I have a huge hardon for LaRouche but realize that some of his supporters are not perfect" This is no where near the truth.
(Message edited by erin_b on October 23, 2005)
10-09-2005, 11:37 PM
Calling a die-hard LaRouchie Anti-Semitic or fascist isn't namecalling, it's truth. Anyone who says this is my limitations is wrong.
(Message edited by erin_b on October 23, 2005)
10-10-2005, 08:59 AM
You are not alone. You sounded troubled and you now sound troubled.
Me saying, You are not alone, was not saying that I think the exact same way as you. It meant that not many people in the world can say that they dropped everything to join the LYM and then went back to school and now are still trying to sort out the mess, between the cracked out media and the key-prosecuting witness, deprogrammed Story Telling Hour of Mr. Curtis.
I told you then, on the phone, that I said that the ideas of Classical Humanism were legit. You had questions. I had questions. We talked. We did not agree on everything, but that is how discussions go. You brought me to this message board to show me that I was wrong and to look at the revealing "testimonies." Now you ask me to leave, to not give my testimony? So I came here, considered the testimony, emailed Mr. Curtis, and then I began to understand a bit better the whole situation. And I am convinced that there are some deranged and ed off individuals here (minus a few thinkers).
Erin, listen, I have never attacked you. We still have much in common, despite what these depressed individuals here are peddling. These guys are creating a bi-polar world in your head, and it is ing with you.
Please, no more animosity. I do personally care about you, especially since we have these things in common. Let's just take one step at a time and try not to jump from polar to polar.
It is a very complicated world. Like these chameleons keep saying, the world is not good versus evil, in a dualistic sense. People who act on evil, are simply confused and troubled, varying from those who are somewhat witting and those who are not.
Accept my pledge to be honest. I am a kid. 21 years young. Can you believe that? You are a kid too. I have many faults but maliciousness is not one of them. And some of these hatemongers here have the audacity to speak matter-of-factly, and reprimand me with their useless harsh words because I do not accept what I am told from those I have no reason to trust. Why would I trust some anonymous bum? I could go read their thesis from Dennis King. Why would I trust the lead prosecuting witness in the LaRouche case word for word? Don't you know there was a whole trial? It was him versus them. Did the prosecution promise him immunity? Did they scare the wits out of him, threatening to prosecute him and throw him in jail, destroy his life? Did they dangle a carrot of admission to law school in his face? Was he "deprogrammed" by that loser Don Moore? Was he good friends with Moore like Moore said in those tapes? That is some of the other side's position, which has been sidestepped here. If the LaRouche case was overturned, as Attorney General Clarke wishes to happen, will Mr. Curtis' career and life be threatened by a perjury charge?
These are ongoing questions that I have not completely settled, nor am I close to settling them.
I do know that I trust people who discuss truthful proofs. The state of world finance/physical economy, Classical Humanism, neoconservatism=neocolonialism. Pot is bad, not enlightening. Live to do Good. Atheism is agnosticism is Enlightenment is fundamentalism is a sense-perceiving-believing moron. These things I would have known not just through Mr. LaRouche. I would know these things had I received a decent education.
I am indebted to Mr. LaRouche infinitely to introducing me to Classical Humanism and the theology of the Vatican. I look at my family in a new light. Forget what these empiricists say about the organization and its members' families. Families have problems. I know this first hand, as I am sure everyone does. Emphasize 1Corinthians13, as Mr. LaRouche and others do, and you will be better equipped to deal with problems in the family. I was there. I saw family problems. I see them in my school. But I also saw plenty of families that enjoyed having their children not avoiding study as they did in high school. Not just watching TV.
20 dollars a week? They paid me to give me the best education I have received thus far? I owe them $40,000 for tuition, room and board.
You know what those kids are getting paid? Trillions. And they are donating it all to sovereign nations. Because when this world wakes up to those policies, Kenya will be able to flip off the IMF and print national credit, to develop their own system of capital formation, to give jobs to the people and infrastructure for the future. All the nations of the world will be freed from the debt-creating rigged speculative system that is killing people; it already is attempting to kill the souls of people like Mr. Curtis. Sure he gave some money for a few charities. What does that do? It justifies the state of world affairs, the state of the billions of harshly indigent, and then he gets to trot around and say how great the neocolonialism is, oh wait I mean, information-technology economy. Try feeding an African village with 200 gigabytes of ram.
Look. They have created a world of circumstance, and Mr. Curtis fills in the gaps with made up intentions. They mischaracterize every step of the way. "Mr. LaRouche is a drunkard who walks around drunk and naked." What?! Come on, now. Even Wikipedia hasn't gone that far. Who knows what these guys are on.
They HATE LaRouche with a passion. They have assumed it as part of their identity. When you HATE someone, it is near impossible to consider otherwise, you will conjure the most outright fairytale versions of reality, meanwhile saying many facts that are circumstantial, just as what was eluded to in the passage from Pope Benedict XVI.
I hope you will no longer mistrust my intentions. I work for no one, but I feel responsible for getting to the bottom of this mess, and I think I have found the bottom of the heap on this message board, and it is about time to grow a little from this experience.
10-10-2005, 10:21 AM
Steve, you're an idiot.
(Message edited by erin_b on October 23, 2005)
10-10-2005, 10:54 AM
I mean, look at what you're writing. Anyone look at it. My God. What has driven you to such depths? These people are doing a real number on you. " this, that. go shove something up your ass and make it hurt."
People who work in the organization are so different from one another. The backgrounds are so incredibly diverse. Their thoughts and studies have come from such amazingly diversified backgrounds. They took so many different roads which led to a similar path.
I think you might really get something out of that book I quoted from Cardinal Ratzinger, God and the World. Love. Love God, love the world because it is beautiful, love thy neighbor, love thy enemies, for they are all God's children. Why would you want to hate one of God's children? If they are acting badly pity them for their confusion, then show the way of love. Take all that anger in your heart and recognize it as confusion, because God's love has yet to surface tangibly for you.
Trust me or don't, but don't make love suffer. It is the only way to release yourself from the hell and fire of hatred that burns within you.
I hope I have not enflamed it more. Perhaps for your sake, I should not post here. Maybe I am wrong on that latter point though. I plead ignorance.
10-10-2005, 02:21 PM
"What has driven you to such depths?"
You. You looked up my phone number on the internet two years after I was expelled, not left, was expelled from the LYM. Very few people know what that's like. I have yet to meet one or read a book by one.
" this, that. go shove something up your ass and make it hurt."
You asked for it by making that ludicrous request, "Please, no personal attacks."
From the phone conversation, you read some of my early posts. You have a very good idea of what I went through, now you're playing their game. "Please no personal attacks" "Please, let's just talk about policy" is a lie coming from a LaRouchie. They're incapable of just talking about policy. I got more personal attacks than anyone talking about any policy when I was in. No one told me this, you stupid, stupid bag. I was in the organization. Don't make me say it again.'
"Don't make love suffer?" Who are you talking about? You're scaring me. I don't even know you. Where do you get off saying creepy things like this to me?
And don't talk to me about God. You're way out of line there. I don't even like you. No God. Save it.
I wish you and everyone who did what they did when I was there could know how I felt the day I was in the office and was so broken down I had no way to release what had been buiding up over the last six months but to scream. If it had happened during Cadre School at night, it would have been a good thing in the eyes of the cult, but this was during a class meeting and therefore disruptive. I wish you could know what that feels like. I wish they could all know what it feels like. You obviously don't.
Then to be spit out when according to their process, I'm supposed to be then taken and built up into a proper LaRouche person, "a real human being". Thank god for small miracles, they kicked me out. No one knows how it feels.
Now don't bother me again.
10-10-2005, 02:34 PM
You are right. This personal discussion should not take place on the web like this. I will leave you be. And I suggest that you remove your name and number from public records if you forever wish to be anonymous.
As for God: After reading Leibniz and the pope, I would have to deny my intentions to not discuss the Creator and His love.
P.S. I will not respond to you again, unless you address me. Best wishes.
10-10-2005, 06:04 PM
You may believe LaRouche is the Messiah if you wish. You may worship him in your own dorm room or home each night at an altar you made yourself. You may want to have sex with him. You may think he's about to safe the world from some kind of doom. The fact that you and your friends won't leave the rest of us out of it is what makes the LYM a cult. The deception, the harassment, the demand for total lifetime devotion, demands for more and more time spent with the group, demands for cash or credit signed over to the org. Brushing off the death of a recruit as "having nothing to do with us" and at the same time a "hoax". Where does it end?
Where does it end?
10-10-2005, 06:12 PM
Again, how do you think that I believe that Mr. LaRouche is the Messiah? Maybe if I publicly and explicitly say this it will ease your mind: Lyndon LaRouche is an imperfect man. As a man, he deserves no alter. Also as a man, as an excellent author, his works should be studied. The pope is a man, and his works should be studied as well. Seymour Hersh is a fierce fighter against atrocities today and should be read. Many Democrats and Republicans, in the House and in the Senate should also be revered in their own ways.
Second, the fact that I will not leave you and others to your own devices is because I believe we can learn from each other. In fact, I know that my understanding has been elevated by this experience. I thank you, sincerely. Keep your credit card and money. just because someone has an opinion as to where you should spend it, does not mean you should take their opinion as you would the true Messiah's.
It ends where we learn to empathize with others and show unconditional love. There's that word again: love.
10-10-2005, 08:20 PM
Shove your best wishes up your ass.
You promise me I will never again receive another phone call from you people (You're not the first). Somehow promise me that I'll have lifetime immunity from having another pamphlet ever waved in my face and I'll hope the next person you with is as nice as I am.
They do not have "opinions" Steve. They don't believe in any such word. Another thing you know and are pretending not to.
They do not display unconditional love, they display hate in massive doses to the population. If you are accepted, you get whatever it is they perceive as love. I don't want to know.
Go to hell. Burn. Stick something up your ass and make it hurt.
06-23-2006, 10:17 AM
Hey Erin B.
When were you a member of LYM and what office? I was part of the group for 1 week and 5 days till they kicked me out.
07-08-2006, 01:42 PM
I was in the LYM in LA for about six months. When they kicked me out, it wasn't so easy for me to leave because I'd been brainwashed, but not enough that I fit in. I'd told them right away that I was bipolar, thinking this was someplace that, if I was going to be working with them, they should know about it.
They should have to read you a atatement the minute they get you on the phone, "You are in a cult. Anything you say can and will be used against you..."
07-12-2006, 08:40 AM
It's mid-July and Cheney hasn't bombed Iran yet. I see your prediction has disappeared from EIR's front page though.
07-12-2006, 04:02 PM
That's because Lyn stopped it. Duh.
07-18-2006, 08:04 AM
lol Erin, what year were you there
07-18-2006, 09:53 PM
This, is supposed to be an example of La Rouche's youth? A sample of their so-called higher intelligence?
Shows where their minds really are. In the gutter.
07-19-2006, 10:30 AM
Hard to determine whether it's more stupid than obscenely unfunny or vice versa. I also had never noticed what a nice brown and grey coat Lyn has.
07-19-2006, 10:32 AM
Hard to determine whether it's more stupid than obscenely unfunny or vice versa. I also had never noticed what a nice brown and grey coat Lyn has.
07-30-2006, 02:32 PM
The yutes took down the picture of Rohatyn behind the donkey from their web site. It was pretty tame by historical standards. You have to go to the Beyond Psych series to get into how corrupt and sick some of these people are. In that series Lyn harped on sexual potency for pages and pages. We viewed all Hispanics as impotent machismo baffoons while Italians were dominated by Maddonna whore complexes and what ever else Lyn thought of at the time. Just see it on the LYM web site under Campaigners for yourself.
The dominant word was "Potent". Every sppech and article by Lyn at the time was about potency. The real game going was one of clever mind control practised by any two bit cult leader. You basically rip apart your members and have them reveal their inner most private thoughts, the more sexual the better. The local NCs would do this also during all night and public berating of people who did not raise enough money at the card table shrines. The NEC members went through this and Lyn literally had people by the balls as he would then bring up dirty laundry when ever he needed to keep some one in line.
Our next forray in to psychsexual politics was in local campaigns. We would usually slander a local candidate with leafletss of them being drug dealers or child molestors. We had quite a few lawsuits around the country over this. In NYC we put out leafletts with congresswoman Bell Abzug dresed like a hooker, NYC mayor Ed Koch as a leather clad S/M gayboy. We also handed out leafletts against NYC politco and future Justice Dept attorney, Liz Holtzman as a lesbian. We hated her really bad becasue she prosecuted Nazi war criminals who were in the US while Lyn, Helga and the org viewed them as "patriots".
In Chicago we blasted Mayor Jane Byrne as a lesbo witch. A female prosecutor in Va named Mary Sue Terry I think put us behind bars. She ran for a Va state office and we did the same gameplan of making her a lesbian witch.
You can go around the country and see that we did this on mnay occasions, sometimes at the behalf of an opposing candidate. That is why I find reading about how Lyn and the cult are Democarats to be so laughable.
One of our EIR reporters was roughed one night covering a convention. We stated to the press and the members that he was assaulted by some high level team to stop Larouche. The truth was that it was a gay encounter which went bad.
We were very much into bashing gays on our signs and in our publications. Kissinger was part of a homosexual young boys club in the Carlyle Hotel according to our writings. Lyn would rail away about how Kissinger killed a Mexican waiter with a wine bottle for refusing his advances in Mexico. There is no end to the psycho sexual lunacy we could print and spread about our enemies. We had an ex lover of Roy Cohn on the payroll giving us stories about him for dirty tricks in NYC according to the King Book.
The trick in all of this is to present Lyn as the only potent figure in your life. If you want to have a great sex life, be like Lyn and be potent and unblocked. The youth today who get invited to private sessions with the likes of Philm Harley, Dennis, Larry, Debbie etc should run for their lives. They will have the goods on you for ever. Any time you get out of line, you will see a sadistic smile from these bums as they reveal to the local and invited guests your private affairs and secrets.
It is all just part of the mind control package you recieve at Larouche University. Every bit of you, tawdry or clean will be stripped away and replaced by your new Larouche Youth identity.
There are numerous stories like this and they all get out eventually. I think someone here has a story about another long oldtimer member named Paul Glumaz in Seattle.
07-30-2006, 03:21 PM
What's the story with Bruce Director? He seems to have become the new educational mavin. I remember him as a pleasant, mild-mannered double bass player from the Houston local. How did he get moved up the org hierarchy -- all thanks to Harley?
08-01-2006, 08:54 AM
Hey, guys and gals, try out this load of crap from Fearless Leader, July 22:
"Only when we recognize the Baby Boomer tendencies seen in the recent months' downshift in morality of the Democratic Party leadership, as a reflection of the disease of Baby-Boomerism traced to the satanic influences of such agencies of modern Sophistry as Sidney Hook's Congress for Cultural Freedom and the related American Family Foundation and Committee on the Present Danger, were it possible for us to save the nation as from any epidemic or pandemic disease. We must thus diagnose and treat the present cultural disease of certain leading institutions. We must employ understanding of the nature of the deep corruption which led to this, today's presently evident degeneration of the leading policy-directing stratum of our institutions."
Can anyone possibly believe this guy is less than five beers short of a six-pack? I hope Broom Helga keeps sharp objects away from him ...
08-01-2006, 11:49 AM
In other words Sancho, the Democratic leadership continues to ignore him and try to pretend he doesn't exist. They see him for what he is: Irrelevant.
It's a temperamental tantrum.
08-02-2006, 05:44 AM
It must be frustrating to come to the end of your life and not be able to point to one thing you've achieved. To get to the point where you finally have to face that you're a deluded fraud.
Sancho's post makes me wonder if Lyndon is doing some soul searching and coming up empty. I wonder what this will do to the minions who have served him. Will they notice any difference as he goes senile?
08-02-2006, 07:41 AM
It's both scary and sad that a man should approach the age of 84 with so little self-awareness. Despite all the harm he has done me and others, one cannot but feel compassion for such a tortured soul.
08-03-2006, 03:56 PM
I would stop having any thoughts of pity for Lyn. As far as I can tell from hundreds of ex members and ex supporters, the man has not a single bit of remorse for any harm caused or lives destroyed.
If there was a single drop of remorse, guilt or shame, it would have been reflected in a recognition of the pain caused to seniors who lost life savings to us.
If there was a bit of self reflection, Lyn would have told the org that the whole Chris White brainwashing story was a hoax instead of driving members to levels of madness,
If there was a drop of humility, Lyn would have come clean on the endless self grandizing and delusions of grandeur with people like Indira Ghandhi, MLK, FDR and any one of the thousands of names dropped over the decades.
If Lyn had any intellectual honesty he would have acknowledged just how much material he plagiarised from members research and claimed it as his own.
Most members who witnessed abuse and lunacy would often self deny the reality of what was unfolding before them by saying "If only Lyn knew".
The fundraisers in the offices thought that Lyn was not privy to the chicanery. The members in the locals who were kicked out of apts into the street would say such things while Lyn was busy being serenaded by musicians and jesters while holding a goblet of Rheingau in his fingers.
The sheer volume of people whose lives we screwed by having them take out loans, cosign loans, lend us credit as vendors and work their butts off for this charade is staggering. You will never, ever find a plan in the org for making full restitution to these people unless it at the end of a court order. Even then we would spin the money so fast between accounts that the lawyers could not catch up to it.
You just have to be there to see the sheer cruelty and madness of this during the trials when elderly people with dementia could not explain to their kids what happened to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Stocks and bonds which were bought with the sacrifice of these people over decades were lost with our promisorry notes.
Not once when I was in was a single bit of guilt or a tear shed for the people who lost money. Instead, I would hear people whoop it up as they told contacts "if you want your money, go ask the Feds since they now own FEF and NSIPS". We even gave people the phone numbers of the Justice Dept to people to call.
When we left NYC for Leesburg we left a pile of debt for the write off column of local vendors and landlords.
To hear Lyn in the National office proudly proclaim his being a Grandfather while the women in the National office were being herded to abortion clinics for this madman is stomach wrenching. His son works on Wall Street according to some down in NYC for the business he calls evil to the members.
This lying piece of garbage wants your son and daughter, but kept his son from the nightmare he has been enshrouding the members with for decades.
The dogs flew first class and ate like kings while the members were one step from picking garbage in this crazy world.
This is a man who would tell a jury that he had no idea how his clothes came about or where his food came from. The jury was stunned at this arrogance as reams of spread sheets with the massive expenses were passed out.
Even in a small prison cell with Will Wertz, he had to tell Will that he was the important one and not Will. So Lyn took the desk and had the bunk choice while Will enjoyed the cement floor.
The only thanks I ever read Lyn offering members was his declaration that the day between his marriage to Helga and Xmas would be a world holiday for saving humanity.
08-03-2006, 07:42 PM
I agree 100% on every point. But as you well demonstrate, this is a very sick individual approaching his end and thus is deserving of compassion.
08-10-2006, 11:01 PM
hey guys. Long time no see. Been busy in school. Going to humboldt state in 5 days. No larouchies up there. Been 5 months since I quit the group and doing great.You guys were a lot of help. Sorry I couldn't post as much. I was trying to get my friendships back with my friends before I joined the cult.
08-11-2006, 12:30 PM
Congrats to you jmp87, sounds like you avoided the long years of drudgery and chicanery that some of us went through "saving the world".
08-12-2006, 03:23 PM
Hi jmp87, where were u based? I was based in DC. Good Luck to u.
08-12-2006, 08:26 PM
I was based in Los Angeles. I left because I started to see through a lot of Phil, a Local Leader's tactics. I also started feeling like a robot which I knew wasn't me so I took off.
08-13-2006, 11:37 AM
Did u think Ardena and Tim were snobs? Did u hear my name mentioned in the briefings?
08-18-2006, 04:10 PM
Okiemute, your name will never come up in a local meeting because the cult works on denying its past history. When I came aboard I read early Campaigners and New Solidarity newspapers and asked about several of the authors. many of those people left the org with nmerous resignation papers about how Larouche was running a Nazi style cult and was a delusionary meglomaniac. Of course I found out about those letters and resignations after I left the org.
Each wave of recruits will be given a new version of events with many things never talked about or mentioned. Mop Up was never brought up when we were organising at plant gates in the 1970's. When we made our comical turn to be right wingers we often joked about how Larouche was invovled in breaking heads of communists to rich supporters.
When members drop out a few things happen. Usually, you are so busy that you never know a person has left. Then, you will be fed a story of how the person was either:
-never a true member.
-was an agent of the ADL.
-was an FBI informant.
-could not get past "mother's fears" of organising.
-couldn't handle the pressure to save humanity.
-wanted kids more than saving humanity, thus very selfish.
-couldn't break with the family ties and grow up.
-was "nagged". That means that former members fed him or her a bunch of lies about Larouche and the person believed it.
-The person was just to weak to face the truth of saving humanity.
-The person loved money more than larouche.
Thats a riot cause when I drove the Bonnevilles to do Larouche's hootch run, he definately loved the cases of Rheingau more than the members who starved to send the money to him.
In all of these examples, and there are more I probably forgot, the person is soon forgotten and never existed in LC history.
You will never ever find a written example of where Lyn thanked a member for his or her work! That is something which is amazing over the 35 years of the cult in that Lyn is without a doubt the most selfish cult leader you will find.
For the present yutes all of the criminal history has been erased and no one talks about credit card fraud or promisorry note swindles of the elderly. Instead, larouche is described to the yutes as the victim of a Gov plot and now elevated to the same level as Martin Luther King or Mahatma Ghandhi.
One reason you never will find another LYM public web site is because I had a blast bringing up the fact that almost the entire LYM catalog of PDF Campaigners was written by NC and NEC members who all resigned in disgust with Larouche and the cult.
08-18-2006, 04:14 PM
Life in the cult is like a Stalin paradise where history is rewritten depending on whom you wish to purge that week.
Ask the local NC about how 118 members of the Detroit, Atlanta and Houston operations created their own enterprise/org under Lyn and security eyes and then one day just sent a letter stating that they all resigned. Lyn then went on the rampage about this and covered his tail by now telling the org that he knew all along that an NC named Ken Dalto and Lyn's 2nd in command Gus Axios/Kalimgtgas were going leave.
This was so funny as the Detroit people put Lyn and Helga up in a Michigan mansion and acted like nothing was going on. Lyn bought the whole Potempkin village org lock stock and barrel. Ken Dalto knew exactly how to manipulate Lyn's massive ego by feeding him massive stories of Lyn's importance.
If you die in the org, it is a lot better if you died many years ago when members were younger and deaths were scarce. Today, old LCers are dime a dozen in Leesburg and Lyn has basically written them off since he has a hundred or so yutes to raise money who are cheaper to work.
In one case, poor Michael Gelber who left the US and ran from a grand jury in Boston about our credit card scams died one snowy night in upstate NY in a Larouchemobile. The best he could get was a "Mike Gelber Memorial Fund" ad in the Schiller Institute magazine. Since the crap is hardly mailed out on time, it appeared long after Gelber was 6 feet under and forgotten to the members.
Larouche has succesfully created a cult where there are more ex members than there are current members.
Over time, the current LYM will figure it out and quietly leave one day, never to be mentioned again. The cult never mentioned Jeremiah Duggan until his mother set up a web site www.justiceforjeremiah.com to show how the cult smeared him and the family. The yutes who were quickly wisked out of Europe to the US still do not why that happened so fast.
Fortunately, many legal and criminal investigators do. Be careful who you share an apt with.
JMP87. Congratulations on your new plans. I myself wish you all the best. You must write up your local experiences for this site so others may learn. What I do know of LA is very scary, especially when you know Phil and Harley's history.
(Message edited by xlcr4life on August 18, 2006)
08-19-2006, 08:24 AM
and what are phil and harley's histories?...phil i'm not so much concerned about...i've listened to his briefings and he's always struck me as a
total brainwash job, pretty much lacking in humor...but harley...harley has always come across - to me, who has never met him - as an intelligent, well-informed individual with a great sense of humor, this last being the touchstone of a sound mind, in my opinion...what can you tell me about harley?
08-20-2006, 04:50 PM
Harley has been aorund for decades and ran our Texas operations. his value to Lyn is through his wife Suzie. Suzie is a fundraiser who joined with her two other sisters in the 1970s. Both sisters left the nuthouse decades ago and went on to have families and productive lives. As long as Harley's wife makes money and Harley brings in the yutes, all is well in Lyn and Helga's estates.
Texas is where we picked up a lot of what we called "Yahoo" supporters when we we were Democrats attacking Carter and doing dirty tricks for Reagan's staff. The oil and gas money in Houston was where Harley and Suzie shined as they found millions of dollars for the org to spend on Lyn.
What Harley does well is what you find appealing about him. He can come across pretty rationale when needed. Suzie on the other hand is kept in a small boiler room like a forgotten crazy aunt. She and Harley are real hard core members who have devoted their entire lives to Lyn and have decided that Lyn is more important than having children. Suzie is so hard core that she could not even stand in line to buy a stick of gum without trying to sell the clerk an EIR sunscription.
Here is a funny web article about Harley in Texas where he ran our campaigns.
"At a meeting of the Texas Populist Alliance a follower of Lyndon LaRouche rose to speak and was applauded – even – for his initial remarks; but, when, without making any other statements of substance, he announced his affiliation with LaRouche, he was immediately hooted down. I and a few others protested the denial of his right to speak but to no avail. (The LaRouchites believe many things that make sense, but LaRouche's own book  denies the validity of the three laws of thermodynamics without saying what they are. Also, it refers repeatedly to Dirichlet's Principle without stating it. When I asked Harley Schlanger, the LaRouchite candidate for Senator from Texas, if he under stood the book, he said yes. But when I asked him to state Dirichlet's Principle, he could not do it. (I can, but most folks wouldn't enjoy it.) This suggests a little bit of phoniness on the part of LaRouchites, but it is still necessary to repudiate their doctrines one by one. This is actually done in this essay but without identifying the doctrines as those of LaRouche because, in most cases, they are shared by others.)"
What is despicable about Harley, Phil, Debbie and Larry Freeman ,Steinberg and others is that they also function as "Trojan Jews" for Lyn. You will often find these characters doing public speaking and interviews where the first line out of their mouth is "Larouche is slandered as an anti semite. Well, I am a Jew and I would not be in an anti semitic organisation...."
The sick part of this is that all of these peole, especially Phil and Harley retold the 1980's "Jew Jokes" to the members. Security told them that Lyn wanted these jokes told to "toughen up the Jewish members against the ADL". Harley was in and raised money so we could reprint the Protocals of the Elders of Zion in Dope Inc. He was there when Lyn wrote his centerfold articles in New Solidarity about the exagerated Holocaust death figures. Harley was there and carried out numerous attacks on the Jewish members identity directed by Lyn. Harley was there when we licked the jack boots of Kurt Waldheim and turned our publications into a public relations bureau for Nazi rocket scientists.
Harley is hard core Larouche. Helga uses the question of who will replace Lyn when he dies like a carrot on a pole in front of a donkey. Harley thinks he has power but has not yet figured out that he and Suzie's main job is to raise money to send to Germany.
08-20-2006, 04:54 PM
The common image many people imagine is one of Lyn and Helga clinking champaigne glasses in the castle to the Harleys and Phils of the org. Without their raising of the money and bringing in replacement yutes for the burnouts, the party could not continue.
The final sick and vile part of Harley is shown on a briefing he gave the LYM in LA a few years ago, after Jeremiah Duggan died. This sick and deluded man told an audience of yutes that the whole Jeremiah Death was set up by Dick Cheney and the British to stop Lyn from winning the White house in 2004! To have this slime talk this way when if he was in Europe, he would be recruiting Jeremiah is one of the most putrid things I have listend to. One can only picture Jeremiah's mother, flying her son's corpse back to England for burial and having to hear this filth about her and her son.
That pretty much sums up Harley Schlanger and what his life really has accomplished.
08-25-2006, 03:46 AM
The ongoing intellectual fraud perpetrated by LaRouche is well illustrated in one of his more recent tirades, "Dynamics & Economy" wherein he babbles hysterically (yet again) against axiomatics. He does however ask therein the pertinent question for rational people:
"... once we accept this role for the notion of an efficient continuity of physical space-time, instead of Seventeenth- and Eighteenth-Century reductionist notions, the relevant question becomes, and remains: What replaces the role of a priori assumptions in a functional mathematics of physical science?" (italics mine)
The answer, in brief, is something he terms "universal physical principles."
To play devil's (or should I say "Satan's") advocate for a moment, let's assume that much of what the LC preaches about the creative process being nonlinear blah blah blah is true. NONETHELESS mathematics and physical science operate among a community of investigators who must be in a position to validate claims made by one another. In mathematics, this validity is made by deductive logical validity and logical coherence among statements. In physical science, those criteria apply in addition to repeatable empirical demonstration. In either case, knowledge advances through resolving such contradictions. In any field of endeavor, unbeknownst to LaRouche and his toadies, one must know precisely what one is talking about, which ultimately entails the use of undefined terms (does anyone not understand that at the root of one's knowledge one must employ undefined terms which are a function of one's intuition so as to avoid an infinite regress of definition?) Ramanujan was among the most creative mathematicians of all time, but his fertile work had to be logically processed into mathematics, and many of his conjectures were found untrue. This entire path of imaginative exploration and community verification is called scientific research. By this standard, LaRouche can scream all he wants, but he and his cult followers advance knowledge not by one whit.
The basis for LaRouche's hysteria, I believe, is that he does not have the intelligence or patience to seek the truth honestly and carefully with the demands for proof spelled out above, proof methods employed by Gauss et al. He is much more interested in being regarded as some kind of "genius" without having to work at it, much more interested in being stroked by his sycophants who, if they demanded proof of any of his claims, would quickly see the fraud which is the smalltime con artist Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Jr.
Lyn, time is short: do you want to die a fraud?
08-29-2006, 05:19 PM
Right on cue, the mathematical crank Bruce Director's "An Insider's Guide to the Universe" has appeared on the LaRouche-cult website. It is in pdf form, so I am unable to copy and paste the many tasty morsels of lunacy he vomits forth from the half-digested products of his mathematical mastication. Where to begin ... suffice it to say that the LaRouchies use "Gauss" as a mouthpiece for many half-baked ideas with which Gauss - who gave short shrift to Hegelian-style quackery of the LaRouche variety - would have no truck, simply because most people have read no Gauss whatsoever. Director lies in many other respects, too, as in the very first paragraph wherein he avers that those who maintain axiomatic systems refuse to bend to empirical discoveries which contradict them. That would be more the LaRouche method, to deny reality. Director's "method" is simply to play around with Mathematica much as children once pottered with an etch-a-sketch device. The results are of equivalent mathematical value. This is all just preaching to the choir, specifically the uneducated and semiliterate LaRouche Youth Movement wing. Good luck, yutes, learning mathematics at the hands of a crank baby boomer.
More anon ...
08-31-2006, 03:09 PM
out of boredom, i entered " lyndon larouche " into the wikipedia search engine this evening...there are several articles posted there on the man, his ideology and the youth movement dedicated to the spread of his ideas...but what was really interesting, fascinating even, was what i found under the " discussion " section of the article about lyndon larouche...what you will find there is a multipage debate between an obvious follower of larouche and someone who opposes larouche, with other members at times offering support to first one, and then the other...the debate is supposed to be about a proposed wikipedia article about larouche, but the real subject is larouche and his movement...an ample amount of quotes and links are provided in the course of this debate to allow readers to judge the evidence that each is able to muster to support his position...i'll allow readers to make up their own minds about who " wins " this debate, but the entire exchange makes for compelling reading, even more informative than the main article...virtually no aspect of larouche's life, philosopy and impact is left unexplored and thoroughly dissected...if anyone here does take the time to look at this, i would be interested in what they have to say...and, xlcr and sancho, the member taking the pro-larouche position appears to be a member of the organization, although he does not identify himself as such...at one point he mentions having met larouche a couple of times...i wonder if you would recognize him..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Larouche "
08-31-2006, 03:56 PM
While there may be legitimate debate about some of "LaRouche's" (i.e., others') "ideas," the fact remains that his organization is a demonstrably harmful criminal cult. My only point in posting here is to share both my experience as a former member of this cult and my limited expertise in a few areas (mathematics and philosophy) to warn away potential young recruits. I understand fully well their enthusiasm to make this a better world through ideas and political action (the NCLC indeed appears at first glance to the emotionally unbalanced, idealistic youth of little intellectual depth a one-stop shop tailored to their desire to fit in and to fulfill their more legitimate aspirations to be of service to humanity) - but the reality is that all of this is (incoherent) camouflage for a slave labor operation designed to supply LaRouche with both cash and sycophants. From what I see posted here, life within the NCLC has not changed at all in its nearly forty-year-old existence - about that squalid existence of twelve-hour days on street corners selling zany publications on a $100-per-week stipend (if that), there can be no debate. I have lived it, and am thankful every day that my life is now my own to decide how I wish to be of help to my fellow man. No young person should have to squander one day of his or her precious life going through the insanely abusive LaRouche meat grinder.
09-01-2006, 06:49 PM
Going to the site that joesixpack recommended from Wikipedia I came across an interesting article on LaROuche's early period stating that he was disowned by the Quakers in Lynn, MA for breeding dissension and how his mother thereafter pulled her other children out as well. There was mention of some financial matter although I think Lyn was only 17 at the time so hard to imagine he was practicing his financial manipulations at such an early age.
09-02-2006, 02:14 AM
Joesixpack, I have been following that series for years on wikipedia. It is a great service for yutes everywhere as something like this was not available when I was a yute myself.
The running battle on the site is over a simple concept we learned over the years working with dictators and felons. You see the same concept at work on late night TV seminars for get rich schemes, futures investments, MLM schemes and no money down real estate. The concept also works with cults as it seems that every decade we have some new Indian guru cult making its way across the country.
The concept is that crime and swindles pay as long as enough time passes to creat a new crop of potential victims who have not heard or read about the last crop of victims.
The initial class of SDS yutes Lyn bamboozled had no idea of his family history and how Lyn flunked out of school. They had no idea of his son and how his main source of income was his wife and whomever he could be a parasite to. To a legion of yutes in 1968 who wanted Marx and wanted it fast. Lyn gave them Marx.
No internet existed back then so no one who wanted to be in a leftist group would know that Lyn was booted out of every left wing group for his massive ego and bouts with delusions. The only way you could find out about that was by meeting another leftist directly and then by chance see a newspaper with an article about Lyn.
The specualtion was always that Lyn was a police informant of sorts who would make deals with the Feds or local Red Squads if it meant taking over the local group. If you see our full history over the decades you can see that every single person and group which comes in contact with us is either spied on or transformed into a discredited club of losers. One wag often commented that the org seems to always feature prominent former something or others who always say that they used to be a somebody until the oligarchy destroyed them and Lyn made them a somebody.
Now if a few years passes, then what ever you were convicted off or accused of before becomes old news. The SDS yutes did not know about Lyn's informant days and days of delusions with old leftist groups.
They left during Mop Op and the next set of yutes who manned plant gates for the US Labor Party were given a new story about Mop Op and how we were the victims. Our national conferences were called "Strategy of Socialism" back then.
The next group of yutes who joined to be clean cut kids manning card table shrines at airports assumed that we were conservatives attacking Jimmy Carter for being liberal, never talking about Strategy for Socialism again.
The next batch who became Democrats did not knkw the extent of how Lyns writings were purloined from crazies who were with the Klan and anti semitic orgs.
The next wave of yutes were never told about all of the old time memebrs who didi the Nuclear Power work who left and denonced Lyn over and over being nutz.
Over time, the insanity of January 1974 was never talked about and Chris White was now a soft spoken Englishman who talked about Shakespeare instead of being brainwashed on a New Caledonia airliner, deprogrammed by Lyn and hunting for Puerto Rican frogman in the Hudson river who were ready to emerge from the deep and assasinate Lyn.
09-02-2006, 02:21 AM
Members were kept in the dark about the credit card frauds and loan swindles. No one was told truthfully about how crazy Lyn was on the witness stand and how he did not file income taxes. After people went to prison, the whole story was redone to make it like not a drop of money we raised had anything ot do with convictions. Instead, the next crop of yutes Lyn was now on par with Ghandhi and Martin Luther King.
The later crop had no idea of how much real estate we owned in Virgina and how Lyn squandered a few 100 million. The lavish lifestyle was never fully known. The extent of how we tried to raise old Nazis from the dead with our Patriots for Germany pary was not fully understood.
The meeetings with dictators and the dirty tricks we did for people we often attacked like Ed Koch and Roy Cohn was never revealed.
The millions of dollars we sent overseas was never accounted for in a truthful way.
This generation of yutes had decades of history either vanish or be rewritten by the cult. Their version of Larouche lunacy being kept from them is Jeremiah Duggan whose death was never known by the US org for a long time. The yutes today will eventually find out the full extent of how they are unwittingly promoting anti semitism in the Islamic world. To an 18 year old yute, what the hell is "The Zayed Center"?
Here, watch this show with Uwe Freisecke on youtube and see who our friends are and what you are supporting.
Educated arabs discussing Bird Flu, Mad Cow disease and AIDS
Watch as Uwe Friesecke, the german guest, notices he has been set up, to play the "western expert role" in a difamatory propaganda piece, and diplomatically tries to soften the tone.
Uwe Friesecke is a german political activist, represen Watch as Uwe Friesecke, the german guest, notices he has been set up, to play the "western expert role" in a difamatory propaganda piece, and diplomatically tries to soften the tone.
Uwe Friesecke is a german political activist, representing the BuSo extreme left party, for the European Parliament Elections 2004. He is a contributing editor of the "Executive Intelligence Review", run by Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche. Lyndon is an American political activist labelled as conspiracy theorist, crackpot, attention-seeker and political extremist, fascist, a cult leader, a homophobe, and an anti-Semite"unrepentan t Marxist-Leninist.
Now I could say that Uwe used to do Helga in Germany , but that would not be correct as Helgas was more of the man in this relationship.
Lyn never quite knew why he could be away for months from Helga and all seemed quiet on the German front.
So just like ways to lose weight and make millions in futures trading, the swindlers get their money, spend some time in courts and in prisons and then return to milk the next crop.
That is why many of us view ourselves as consumer affairs experts on cults.
09-05-2006, 05:20 PM
Hello out there. I've read some LaRouche stuff and talked on the phone to a couple of their representatives (who tried to sell me literature). One thing I've read here jogged to mind a question about them.
Is it true they sent their own people to get abortions? If so, doesn't that sort of contradict their precept of human life being made in God's image and therefore sacred? If I'm one cell big, do I not count?
09-07-2006, 01:26 PM
The important thing to remember is that there is one line put out for public consumption and another for the members. For instance, LaRouche talks about third world development and helping people advance their lives through technology (technology in his positivist dreamworld solves all problems) while the membership lives in squalor on $5 per day. Likewise, when he wanted to reach conservative Catholics he preached against drugs, and for population growth, but told members not to have children because they would get in the way of organizing. LaRouche is one of those people who preach love of "humanity" but hate real humans.
09-08-2006, 04:50 PM
Back like an old penny after watching the video XLCR pointed to. And this passes for intelligent thought and discourse in the world of Larouche?
09-09-2006, 04:30 AM
Helgasdogs, the abortion question in the org has to viewed in the context of being in a cult of personality rather than an issue. Many things we experience in the org years ago do not really become clear until one has left and has rethought what happened.
The whole bizarro world of Lyn has to exist on axioms, or what we used to call "multiply connected manifolds". In other words, you actions are dictated by a series of events in the org which have very little to do with the real world. Perhaps the most important axiom is one of perpetual economic collapse , the prediction of the collapse but most importantly, the idea that humanity will cease to exist and only an SDSLC, NCLC, USLP, FEF, ADC , CFL, CLTEL, NDPC, LODF or LYM can stop this. Whew! I can't even come close to realing all of the fronts and hats we wore raising the booty for Lyn and Helga. Beleive me, Helga's booty grew real fast once she developed a taste of the good life and here wardrobe had to be refitted many a time.
Now about abortions. This is one of those things which at first was a problem becasue when you have young, fertlie female members with husbands, babies can soon come. In the beginnin of the org this did not seem to be a problem as we had members with kids join the org. The problem was that when you start to think of a child you start to think of a family and all of the responsabilities that go along with it. This means that you have to wonder about what exactly you are doiong in life following an increasingly crazy group led by a mad man. It is one thing to solve all of your home problems of family and school by leaving that worls and joing Larouche. It is another thing when you see that a pack of Pampers costs more than than two days stipend. Believe me, Phil Rubenstion did the math for us in the National office one day to pass the time.
At first we had an implied thinking that since we are in a group that has some clear election goals, then have the kids later. There is nothing wrong with this as people start families after leaving school and securing careers and things like housing and health insurance. In the org, your life was one of a nomad for Lyn. You could be told to pack up and ship out to a new local on a days notice. You could have your relationship busted up by the NC since the reason you did not meet quota at a card table shrine or in a boiler room was because of your mate.
The NYC office had a day care center in the Bronx which allowed people who already had kids to park them there while performimg their National office duties. What about new kids?
Well, that question did come up during a conference by a few woman. One LCer I think was Martha Quinde who raised this to Lyn. The answer by Lyn was that you can't have babies during war, and we are in war with the oligarchy. As a sidelight I just thought of how the org loves to talk about the thirty year war in its never mailed out on time publications. The reality is that Lyn has had his memebrs in a thirty year war against his delusions and demons from childhood if look at his life.
This answer by Lyn did not go over too well with the nearing 30 something female membership. The org can not have people who think outside the box, er cult. Babies mean that your parents are now closer to you. You can't deploy every day and night around the clock for Lyn. Your 5 bucks a day stipend and life in theo org could be grounds for a visit from the child welfare authorities.
09-09-2006, 04:37 AM
Within every local was a story about a female member who became pregnant. The whispers were there and a few weeks later the whispers stopped as another fiendish plot to destroy the world was discovered and we were off to stop that. Then, fresh whispers were heard as the female memeber did not show up for card table duty one day. Later you heard that she had an abortion and within the org, we were relieved.
After I left I wondered about what happened in other locals. Quite a few people began to write on the web that this abortion policy was more than an isolated case. A few woman whom are now in their 50s regret what they did because they later found that they could no longer have children. Some women had more than one abortion. What gave me the creeps was when I heard about how this was organised to a science in the National office with Nancy Spannaus taking woman to abortion clinics herself to make sure it was done. This is one of those things which the more you find out, the more revulsive it becomes.
I can't ell you how many members did this. Ican tell you that in Leesburg you will notice that an extremely high percentage of female members have adopted children since they were not capable of having children.
A few high ranking members had children, one example was Molly Kronberg who had a boy named Max. A lot of us thought that this was a way of saying FU to the org as she had Max and then later never had him set foot near the org and instead raised a fine young man who is now a college star.
Spannaus leading the LC train to abortion clinics in NYC was like a bad dream. Here was a woman who herself had two kids when she joined the org who was telling females that there is no time for kids while the economy is ready to collapse. Go to page 41 of the King book for some more Nancy info.
The next bizarro world moment was when we decided to go after the right to life movement for recruits and money and formed what we called "The CLub of Life". We then boiled the RTL fundraiser lists and proudly proclaime dthat Nancy Spannaus was the US President of it!
Some people today look at all of this and have a deep disgust with Nancy Spannaus. Others have some sympathy for her as she lost one of her two kids in a tragic auto accident in Leesburg several years ago.
Her husband Ed has been emasculated by Helga many a time and Lyn has turned Ed into a compete doofus in the briefings and internal memos.
Now keep in mind that Lyn has a son who he keeps far from the org. Lyn also proudly walked past the female members a few years ago and exclaimed to the Leesburg office that he was now a Grandfather and felt great!
Nancy's other son is in LA and is married with a child I think. He associates with the LYM but makes it clear that he has his own world to deal with.
In all of this understand that Lyn can abort the Spannauses in one memo. He can purge them on a whim and 40 years of Ed and Nancy come to an end one day in the briefing.
09-11-2006, 01:36 AM
A quick note about 9/11. On PBS at @ 9 PM there should be a Special program about the WTC called "America Rebuilds" . Those of you from the 1980's should watch and pay attention to the closing credits.
09-12-2006, 02:50 PM
I was listening to the news on WABC radio in NY today where they were discussing yesterday's 9/11 remembrance. Amidst the solemnity of the reading of names, etc. the reporter mentioned a protest group with signs saying that 9/11 was a gov't conspiracy. Any bets which group that might have been? Embarrassment doesn't seem to touch hardcore members of LYM.
09-14-2006, 02:12 AM
there are plenty of people who believe that 9/11 was a government conspiracy...the winner of the democratic primary in florida campaigned on a 9/11 truth promise, and gave a presentation at the national press club the morning of 9/11 calling for an independent investigation...what do YOU know about the matter, boris?...done a lot of research?...or just smear people who ask good questions?...for anyone interested, please watch the video presentation by william rodriguez...he was a janitor at the wtc, and on the morning of 9/11 he saved many lives, including those who were injured in EXPLOSIONS that occurred in the basement of the building BEFORE the first plane hit...there are many witnesses to these explosions, including the people who he rescued...he was decorated by president bush with a medal of honor for heroism...he testified before the 9/11 commission - oddly enough, in CLOSED session - and provided the commission with a list of the other witnesses to these explosions...none were called...and his testimony was left out of the final report...go figure... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294&q=william+rodr iguez&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294&q=william+rodr iguez&hl=en) people like you make me sick, boris...
09-14-2006, 05:27 AM
People who make me sick are those so devoid of anything resembling a life that they squander time and energy they could spend nurturing themselves and others by indulging in the madness of hysterically looking under every rock for a conspiracy to account for the otherwise easily explicable - and then wildly attack others for not joining them in their twisted folly.
09-14-2006, 09:09 PM
(Message edited by joesixpack on September 15, 2006)
09-14-2006, 09:53 PM
i see, sancho, that you had a point...in my anger at seeing 9/11 truth movement activists smeared by the linking of their activities with those of the LYM, i failed to make myself clear...i do not disparage anyone who disagrees with me, about anything, and certainly not about 9/11...my point was that many people disbelieve the official account of 9/11 - for a variety of reasons...i know people who were at ground zero this past 9/11, and if larouche had any presence there it was a minority...boris bad doesn't make it clear if larouche was mentioned in the radio report or not, and if he was, it was obviously a cheap shot, and a smear...but borisbad's suggestion that somehow people who disbelieve the official account have something to be embarrassed about is another cheap shot...i urge you to watch the rodriguez video before you engage in wild speculations about the motivations of people who doubt the official story...rodriguez lost around 200 friends and co-workers that day, and appears to be motivated by nothing other than a desire to honor their memory, and their loved ones, by demanding the truth...and you perhaps forget that bush did not want ANY investigation - it was rodriguez and the families who went to congress and demanded one...as for the rest of what you say, i will ignore the personal attack, because you haven't the slightest idea of who and what i am, but gently suggest that gullibility is nothing to be proud of, and why anyone would believe what this administration says about anything, given its' track record, is beyond psychoanalysis...
09-15-2006, 04:09 AM
I am certain conspiracies occur, but I am rarely competent to evaluate the evidence pro and con. For example, from all I hear, the evidence appears strong that it is likely that Oswald did not operate alone, and I keep that possibility open. BUT I do not have the time to develop the expertise to evaluate the validity of these claims, and therefore devote my time to areas where I can make a positive difference.
I apologize to you for my acerbic response, but my larger point was to identify one of the chief ways in which cult leaders like LaRouche operate: they claim in at least some areas (LaRouche, all areas) that they have some secret knowledge, some hidden sources, or special abilities which enable them to see what no one else (i.e., the rest of us) can, thus further binding their victim-followers closer to him. LaRouche rants about "reason" when all he does is spew forth the fruit of his putatively deep (and alcohol-induced) gnosis. Reason properly demands both logic and evidence. It is true that the most fecund truths are discovered much more by inspiration than strict deductive logic, but if one wishes to convince others of what one has arrived at through imagination, one must supply good and valid arguments. This conspiracy theorists and cult leaders regularly fail to do. Their reasoning is of the form: what about this?, well what about that?, and so forth. That does little to convince me, especially when I have no independent way of verifying the adduced facts.
09-17-2006, 12:28 PM
I had seen one of the original videos on 9/11 which raises all the points joe sixpack talks about. I suspect that they must be either denying that the people on the airplanes died, or that they disappeared or are somehow alive today, just like the alleged hijackers who are supposed to still be alive. I truly disdain what Bush and company have done to this country, especially in the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq, but to say that they deliberately engineered the collapse of the towers is insane, and is part of LaRouche's attempts to curry favor with the Islamist extremists by continued hints that the Zionists (who of course warned Jews to stay away from the WTC on 9/11 according to many of these theorists) were behind the attacks.
09-18-2006, 03:03 AM
Here's the pot calling the kettle black.
09-18-2006, 04:46 AM
Speaking of conspiracies, I am always suspicious of people who use three or more names: Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Jr., Amelia Boynton Robinson, etc. I am surprised to learn her mother was Walter Scott, however.
Bush & Company are of course a disaster for the nation, but that does not make them culpable for EVERYTHING that goes wrong in this largely demented world. Nor to help that world is it required to join a disastrous, demented cult such as the LaRouchites constitute. One can fight social injustice, promote classical culture, and be creative only on the condition that one is FREE to do so. Loitering in public places and selling subscriptions to crank publications delivered late if at all under the burden of a quota set by madmen is hardly a solution to anything except perhaps to the LaRouches' economic woes.
(Message edited by sancho on September 18, 2006)
09-18-2006, 02:33 PM
How's this for insanity and lies?
09-18-2006, 06:31 PM
I don't buy the City of London blah-blah-blah, but everything Chaitkin says of Buchman and Shoemaker I know to be true. The Buchmanites - like the LaRouchites - have an evil agenda, so there can be little doubt that they could easily have used this documentary for their own twisted purposes. (Chaitkin's pieces are better grounded than most of what passes for history in that outfit, although he unfortunately has always to toss in the obligatory zany, overblown conspiracy-du-jour angle.)
09-29-2006, 03:27 PM
I think my name disappeared, but I'm still here!
I have a question for all you LaRouche-fu masters: These people seem religious, sort of; do they believe in hell? Are people who don't join them damned or something?
09-29-2006, 06:49 PM
No, one gets damned into hell by joining them.
09-29-2006, 08:07 PM
From what I've read they're pretty anti-pot. (Note to self: When attending meetins, don't wear the shirt with pinholes.) Have they ever talked about a plan to increase the regulation of alcohol and tobacco, things that kill, oh, a Civil War worth of people each year when dope kills zilch?
09-30-2006, 06:10 AM
ikkni06. Larouche was raised in a very strict Quaker family. Depsite the twists and turns of the cult over the decades and Lyn's constant makeovers, the essence of circus tent worshipping still remains in the DNA.
The difference is that you must now worship Larouche as the all mighty and all powerfull. many of the real early members will remeber that it was not always that way in the SDS Labor Committee days. Most of our early intellectual activity revolved around Marxism and atheistic leanings.
Almost anything Lyn wrote about religion was within the context of Fuerbach and Marxist views as religion being the opiate of the people. Chrristianity and Judaism were all gutter religions which kept the masses from persuing global revolution.
In retrospect I think something else was going on. In starting a cult of personality it is important to eliminate every single drop of individual identity among recruits. many of our early recruits were from colleges where critical philosophy was taught. Many of those recruits were Jewish with a smattering of Christians among everyone else. The early life in the org was of basically ridiculing any member who still went to Church or Temple.
If you read early Campaigners and think back to life in the LC back then, our identity was to be greater than God. We debated the potentcy of the devil in having "hubris" and spent our time with William Blake art and wrtitings about how we can be God Like in transforming the Earth in our new Strategy for Socialism"
We really were nuts no matter what era you look at.
The signs of a "Potent" Larouche organiser was someone who looked forward to leafletting a mass on Sunday morning about Rockefeller's plot to take over the world and assasinate Lyn. Now back then we were ether NCLC or USLP organisers and Lyn's head was not that swelled yet until he discovered TV and how much fun it was to run a cult.
Jewish members had the Judaism beaten out of them every single day by the briefing, local leaders and Lyn's writings and speeches. This culminated in our reprinting "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in an edition of Dope Inc and
Lyn's love for erasing the Holocaust in our publications.
Once we had religion beaten out of everyone's head, Lyn became religious. This happened in the late 1970's as we began to solicit support from Christians and Islamic groups for our National Anti Drug Coalition fundraising. As is usually the cae in the org, every old Campaigner and article about the evils of religion were swept clean and we were now trumpeting God.
There is a lot more of this I wrote about in earlier posts you can read here.
The key point is that Lyn transformed himself into the next son of God as the criminal investigations were unfolding. In numerous occasions you can read our lit and breifings where Lyn was now in the Garden of Gethsemane and he has the weight of humanity on his shoulders.
This got soo kooky that one Easter in Leesburg, Lyn had to order a mass meeting of the Leesburg membership to the barn on his property. All leaves were cancelled and eveytone had to show up or be considered evil for not being there. Lyn gave a rousing show worthy of a tent revival about how the descendants of the devil himself were going to destroy humanity and unleash a fury of destruction if he was arrested.
Of course, Lyn being the brave man that he is would fight this with every drop of blood in his potent body to deafeat Evil. Now while the memebrs were ooohing and aaahing this, our Asian sector was trying to get Lyn into Thailand to escape US extradition laws.
I have some more of this whole show later, but my family comes first this weekend.
09-30-2006, 10:45 PM
During the late 1970s lot of money and contacts were generated by our National Anti Drug Coalition work. Fusion magazine was getting us the engineers with money and we needed something to hit up their wives who were home. We also needed an angle to call up the Church types whom we denounced a few years earlier. This got so ridiculous that you could have conversations with Executive leaders aboout how we were going to retool the Churches and Temples into productive centers of planned socialist growth!
As we ababdoned our annual "Strategy for Socialism" conferences we made ourselves clean cut yutes who were against drugs. Of course we made sure that the Jews were in the center of the world drug trade via their banking control and control of organised crime. The one thing which never seemed to change in the org is how the Jews seem to control everything. Now since you are in a cult, this stuff shoots past you as you are in an endless mobilization rasing money.
The NADC organising sent us to inner city churches and we found that in suburbia where you found RTL people, it paid to not denigrate the Good Book. On Sundays we would send out members to talk before whatever church we could about the evils of drugs. Eventually you found that if you made drugs the work of the devil, you got a few more contacts and subscriptions to our magazin "War on Drugs". WOD became like Fusion in that after the first few issues with some interesting articles, it became nothing more than a vanity press for Larouche and a source of names to boil for fundraising.
In a pattern which every one here will recognise, money was shifted slowly from the printing and mailing of the subscriptions to other needs. For the field hands and boiler room staff, we would tell them that the ADL and the Drug Lobby were conspiring to not just assasinate Lyn, but also figured out how to stop our printer in Hillside NJ from printing our magazines and succeeded i getting the US pOStal Service from mailing them out.
The simple, behind the scenes satory was that we just stopped paying the printer while we purchased our own printing press and spent the postage money on something else.
Now aht does all of this have to do with God, Hell and Pot? If you were in the org in the 1980s we were making a mint off of boiling various conservative lists we rented. Lyn began to write more and more about the Devil and the word EVIL became a common word for us. The world economy was not a collection of billions of exchanges and trqansactions, but one in which EVIL now ruled. Our enemies list was no longer merely out for control of resources or unsavory business practices, but now was controlled by Belzebub himself.
In 1980 we published a pamphlet called "The Aquarian Conspiracy". This was a big project where we basically linked anything which was not a mainstream idea like New Age, Astrology, Hospice care, being gay, the Beatles, smoking pot, Playboy and a whole bunch of other stuff to a world wide conspiracy to unleash the Dark Ages. Since we were against the British, they were the masters and purveyors of this.
The Dark Ages book was sold by us on our NADC walking tours as the companion to our Dope Inc book. During this era we also became big on the Vatican and started to print material about Masonic cults out to rule the world by doing the work of Satan. Lyn started a whole other venue about ancient civilizations, the Whore of babylon and how everything can be reduced to Lyn being good and everyone else evil.
09-30-2006, 10:49 PM
For a while, every speech of Lyn was punctuated by him shouting AGAPE, AGAPE AGAPE. The illusion created for us was that Lyn is unselfish and does this for the love of humanity. So why can't you members do that and stop squawking about your stipends and bills? These memos were of course written in his Leesburg estate after a 12 course meal while Helga opened up her boxes from Saks 5th avenue.
I really can't do justice about this whole period. The sheer volume of what we printed and believed was overwhelming. A lot of this was just stuff Lyn hijacked on a whim from people we were working with. The Liberty Lobby and crazy right wing people he was meeting with were big on this stuff.
I will let you in a little secret. Almost all of the stuff Lyn and security were writing about the Vatican and the numerous Knights of whatever conspiracies came after the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" became an "in" book by security staffers. The premise we worked on was that the "elites" reveal their sinister plans in movies and books ahead of schedule. We have some of the most gifted talent on the face of the planet who can weave conspiracy stories using everyone's conspiracy so you can call everyone and have a line for them.
What I felt was most important in the org are two things.
-A perpetual Messianic end of times for the memebers to believe.
-Lyn as the only mortal who can save humanity.
If you were to take a close look at virtually every writing by Lyn from his days in the SWP to the SDS Lc to the NCLC, USLP , NDPC, CTEL, CFL up to LYM, you will notice something real clever. Everything revolves around a world wide economic collapse which is inevitable and which will cause the end of humanity as we know it.
You will find this end of the world schtick increasing in intensity with the exact same words used for decades. Since Lyn has a cult of personality to run, he does not care about turnover of members. In fact, this is his greatest accomplishment in that he can have a perpetual money machine at no cost to himself which burns itself out and gets replaced by the next batch on believers. Every new batch of yutes who have no idea of how support themselves and pay bills now sees a 6 foot 4 tall man preaching about "THE END OF THE WORLD economy".
Every speech will sound the same.
" This quarter will be the last. The economy is bankrupt, finished, kaput. There is no choice but to let it go bankrupt and start all over"
" The debt is too much to be paid back. The world economy is bankrupt as you know it. All of your stocks and mortgages are worthless. Get out of paper and into gold."
"This is like rearranging the deck chairs of the Titanic. There is nothing you can do to delay this outcome"
I can go on and on as the speeches are all the same as time goes on. If you want to see this, just go to the LYM web site and click on the PDF files of old campaigners and read the editorials and any article by Lyn. I had New Solidarities from 1974 to the present version called The New Federalist which can be interchanged without most people noticing anything different.
(Message edited by xlcr4life on October 01, 2006)
09-30-2006, 10:56 PM
The LYM are so silly that they have not figured out that at the card table shrines the magazines and papers they give out are months or years old. It does not make a difference to them because the articles have the same content about the world collapsing. The 60 year old guy with you at the table has been through this for 30 years. His economy collapsed after he joined Larouche, he thinks the rest of the globe is like this.
Now once you have this engrained Messianic end of the world drilled into your head, who can stop it?
Well since you are meeting and calling people who sometimes really do things to help people or do economic things, there is no way in hell you can admit that they are doing something productive. Thus, your mind works to convince them and yourself that their efforts are futile.
This is real important because to make a cult work, you have to create incredibley hopless worlds for members where only the leader of the cult can save you and the world. From Rev. Moon to any two bit sect leader, the principal holds true.
I have heard many a member say that they were lost until they found Lyn. People would offer Lyn thanks for saving them from the banal real world and offering them intellectual growth. If you get some more members private they will talk about Lyn in a way which is down right creepy.
This whole thing does something else I find. It screws with people's heads after they leave. On numerous occasions I would read emails and hear ex members talk abouit how difficult it was to leave the org when this is pounded into you. You want to break free of the grip of the cult, but find that a voice says "what if some of this is true?" This reminds me of people who at first declare themselve atheists, but then keep a little bit of the fear that there is a God in their heads.
Your religion and beliefs are your private matters. What the org does is make that a public affair where you fear that the world will end and only Lyn can do something about it.
This is what keeps a few hundred people running like hamsters for Lyn who have not figured out that this carnival has been running for 3 decades.
Now as far as pot goes. We started the LC as the opposite of the counterculture. Most people smoked tobacco in the 60s and 70s. Pot was not something which people smoked to get high, but a plot by the British to impose a new dark ages to run the world. \\
Also understand that Lyn was a heavy pipe smoker for decades. It looked real impressive to jerky college drop outs who considered him a master of the universe. You would break out laughing if you could imagine opening any door in the National office and seeing everyone smoke pipes.
Booze was another matter. Lyn was a notorius first class boozer. One of my jobs was driving the Bonnevilles on hooch runs for Lyn and Helga. Cases and cases of Rheingau were always on hand. Beer was for filthy Americans so everyone became a wine expert. Today in Leesburg, most dead enders hit the bottle to drown the depression of seeing 30 years of life go up in smoke an mirrors.
09-30-2006, 11:00 PM
A lot of Lyn's musings about Christianity also were because of being in prison. Never one to skip a beat in self promotion, Lyn had to equate his being in prison not because of the worthless promisorry notes and credit card scams, but that he was set up like Jesus by a Judas and sentenced to die by the modern day Roman Satanists. He was now like Martin Luther King in a cell.
This is a guy who equated the death of Socrates and Christ to himself when he was scheduled for a medical procedure in the Rochester Federal Prison.
The procedure was a colonoscopy!!! I once posted the press release by Warrne Hammerman about this asassination attempt by the Satanists.
You can also find some posts I wrote about how the org began to write about the Satanic roots of rock and roll by Don Phau to use in calling religious groups for Lyn.
This stuff is pretty crazy and is sometimes a little esoteric for non members. But the world of Larouche is crazy.
10-01-2006, 05:57 AM
ikknio6, if you wish to read more about Larouche and pot, research the following names. Gabriel Nahas was a featured opart of our NADC work and we often featured him in our War on Drugs magazine.
Here is a funny post about that era:
Subject: Gabriel Nahas
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 9:12:14 CDT
>>>If anybody has any *facts* about Nahas as his reported retractions of findings and his fall from grace with Colombia Univ. I'd like to hear the details.<<<
>> I think Jack Herer's book has some citations to retractions made by Nahas. If it wasn't Jack's book, then it was Chris Conrad's book, "Lifeline to the Future."<<
Neither one has specific references to newspapers or anything. They state that Columbia University held a press conference in 1976 distancing themselves from Nahas' research, and that Nahas made retractions of _some_ of his studies at a press conference in 1983, after much professional ridicule. I wish one of them had thought to include a newspaper reference or a specific date. It may be in the latest edition of Emperor; I've got a 1991 copy.
They also talk about Nahas' associations in the UN with Kurt Waldheim and Lyndon Larouche, his control over all UN-sponsered cannibis research for a period in the early seventies, and a professional scandal in 1971 when he published a report of a marijuana fatality in Belgium. Larouche and Nahas both worked at the OSS, which later became the CIA. And, get this, Nahas is trained as an anesthesiologist!
This guy's serious bad news, and he has no credibility within the medical community whatsoever.
References for studies repudiating Nahas' claims:
Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), 4/30/1973, pg.631: highly critical review of book on cannabis by Nahas
Disproval of immune-system damage claims:
Science, vol.186, 1974, pp.740-741 "Normal Skin Test Responses in Chronic Marihuana Users", M.J. Silverstein & P.J. Lessin
This is one of our articles from the 1990s in our science magazine
http://220.127.116.11/search?q=cache:i7qNNJxCTZgJ:mitosyfraudes.8k.com/INGLES-2/Mari.html+gabriel+nahas+and+larouche&hl=en&gl=us&c t=clnk&cd=28 (http://18.104.22.168/search?q=cache:i7qNNJxCTZgJ:mitosyfraudes.8k.com/INGLES-2/Mari.html+gabriel+nahas+and+larouche&hl=en&gl=us&c t=clnk&cd=28)
Here is a review of one of our meetings:
"If Peter Ueberroth or his ilk had been in charge of baseball during Prohibition, the "Sultan of Swat" would have been fired in shame and millions of children would not have proudly played in "Babe Ruth Little Leagues." Lyndon LaRouche's "War on Drugs" committee told us that, along with new marijuana laws, they expected to implement their most important goal: anyone in the future playing any disco, rock 'n' roll, or jazz on the radio, on television, in schools, or in concert, or who just sold rock 'n' roll records or any music that wasn't on their approved classical lists would be jailed, including music teachers, disc jockeys, and record company executives. "
Next I will show you why there is a lot more to this then meets the eye when you enter the bizarro world of Larouche.
10-01-2006, 06:01 AM
LaRouche Declares War on Rock 'N Roll
If you thought Anslinger's music craziness was over after he went after jazz in the 1930s and 40s, then consider this:
One of the chief organizations among the 4,000 or so "Families Against Marijuana" type groups today is Lyndon LaRouche's "War on Drugs" committee, supported by Nancy Reagan, TV evangelists Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, and other right-wing activists.
In January, 1981, this author and five members of the California Marijuana Initiative (CMI) secretly, by pretending to be pro-LaRouche, attended the West Coast convention of this organization, whose guest speaker was Ed Davis, former Los Angeles Police Chief, who was at that time a freshman state senator from Chatsworth, California.
As we each walked in separately, we were asked to sign a petition endorsing a Detroit reporter who had written an open letter to the new President, Ronald Reagan, asking him to give immediate presidential clemency and make a national hero of Mark Chapman, who had murdered John Lennon of the Beatles six weeks earlier.
The letter stated that John Lennon had been the most evil man on the planet because he almost single-handedly "turned on" the planet to "illicit drugs". The evils of rock 'n' roll are a constant theme of the "War on Drugs" publications.
To keep up with the part we were playing, we signed the petition. (John, forgive us we were playing a clandestine role: under-cover CMI anti-narc. We remember you for "Give Peace a Chance," "Imagine," and all the rest.)
After we signed the petition, their leaders took us to the back of the room to show us some of the goals that would be achieved when they would come to full power over the next decade.
On five or so long tables set up in the back of the Los Angeles Marriott LAX meeting room were hundreds of recordings of Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, and others, and dozens of pro-nuclear power publications.
They told us that along with new marijuana laws, they expected to implement their most important goal: anyone in the future who played disco, rock 'n' roll, or jazz on the radio, on television, in schools, or in concert, or just sold rock 'n' roll records or any other music that wasn't from their approved classical lists, would be jailed, including music teachers, disc jockeys, and record company executives. School teachers, if they allowed such music by students, would be fired. (LA Times; KNBC-TV.)
10-01-2006, 06:10 AM
When many of us were in the org, it was usually the case that we would attack any body who critqued us as part of the "Dope Lobby". Since you are in a controlled world where there is no debate or reading of outside sources, many members accepted that axiom.
Here is what very few members ever saw which explains why there is no love between King and the cult.
It is a bit too long to post here in one piece. If I have time, I will post it for our fans here. In the meantime, go to:
http://22.214.171.124/search?q=cache:G5Y2G-AEPU4J:dennisking.org/teamsters.htm+larouche+and+pot&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk &cd=30 (http://126.96.36.199/search?q=cache:G5Y2G-AEPU4J:dennisking.org/teamsters.htm+larouche+and+pot&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk &cd=30)
HYPOCRITES! ANTI-DRUG CULT LINKED TO MOB CRONIES
By DENNIS KING
High Times , December 1981
Like Bible salesmen, they trudge door to door in suburban communities. Articulate, well-dressed young people armed with brightly colored magazines and theoretical tracts, they claim to be waging a "war on drugs." They tell you marijuana is destroying the brains of American youth, and they link this to a supposed recent upsurge in the use of heroin and other hard drugs. They ask you to donate money and to enroll in their rapidly growing organization, the National Anti-Drug Coalition (NADC).
10-02-2006, 07:59 PM
When are the Dems. going to take these people seriously and do something about the LHLs?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE7D91F3DF933A25750C0A96E9482 60&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fOrganizati ons%2fD%2fDemocratic%20Party
(Message edited by wanderer on October 02, 2006)
10-03-2006, 04:39 PM
Like what? Rub them out?
America is still a democracy, isn't it?
10-03-2006, 06:36 PM
LaRouche has attacked democracy again and again as "mobacracy" among other things - so he can't hide behind that shibboleth. Germany has outlawed the Scientology cult, therefore I don't see why a demonstrably harmful, criminal cult like the LaRouche gang shouldn't be rubbed out; after all, that's the type of thing LaRouche does to those who oppose him. I, for one, do not support freedom of speech for fascists.
10-04-2006, 12:50 PM
in the first place, the united states is a republic - that is, its' system of government is in theory designed to protect the rights of the individual against the passions of the majority
through the rule of law...the founding fathers set it up that way for that very reason...and you can attack larouche for many reasons, but he happens to be correct about democracy...in the second place, and more importantly, it is frightening to find you, sancho, calling for the " rubbing out " of the larouche cult..." i, for one, do not support freedom of speech for fascists..." - i would wager that i could find a quote of larouche saying that very thing, or something similar...i understand your bitterness
regarding the larouche organization, but be careful...freedom of speech is something truly precious...if you like germany's laws, move there...though, the way this administration is going, just sit back and wait - the u.s. is moving in that direction, with all the noble sounding justifications people like you can muster...THINK!
10-04-2006, 01:58 PM
10-04-2006, 03:10 PM
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomsky
10-04-2006, 03:26 PM
Thank you for the link joesixpack. It seems incredibly silly for people to worry about some go-nowhere outfit like the LaRouchies when the real criminals are already getting their swastika armbands pressed and starched. What could be more criminal that the Iraq War and all it's bringing, for Christ's sake?
10-05-2006, 10:31 AM
Oh. So the La Rouche group are real Democrats huh?
They're not convicted enough in their own beliefs to stand on their own platform. They're always trying to borrow everybody else's credibility because they have none themselves.
They're the ones who try to stop others from using their freedom of expression. They're the ones who want to control and "educate". Get it right. They're frauds.
10-05-2006, 03:53 PM
LaRouche and his minions all belong behind bars permanently where they can exercise all their dimwitted passion on their fellow inmates. Can you imagine for one minute the type of nation this would be were LaRouche, God forbid, in power? He would make Bush look like a Philosopher King. "Freedom of speech" - for the LaRouchites and like criminal cults - is the last refuge of these scoundrels ... and the first thing they would extirpate for others upon their ascendancy. This is why they and all other fascists must be eliminated.
10-05-2006, 04:53 PM
What about Marxists? Should they be eliminated too? They want to destroy America too, after all. They certainly do their best to destroy just about every country they gain power in.
Who all is on your hit list, is what I'm wondering.
10-05-2006, 05:38 PM
Like it or not, LaRouche, and the rest of the political fringe, have a right to assemble, speak, and lobby for their ideas under the Constitution. They do not have a right to engage in criminal acts in order to advance their agenda. No one does. However, without evidence sufficient to convince a prosecutor that there is a) probable cause to allege that a crime was committed, and b) a case can be made that is prosecutable in court, you aren't going to see anyone "rubbing out" or otherwise ending the LaRouche madness. LaRouche was convicted the one time a case could be made, and that was at the behest of state attorney generals who were hearing from constituents about fraudulent credit card activity.
To Wanderer: Plagiarism is not a crime in any state in this country, so far as I know. LaRouche and his crew can borrow and use anyone's ideas to inform and shape their agenda. A lot of politicians borrow and run on other's ideas. That's how they get themselves re-elected. It's up to us, the electorate, to inform ourselves about those who seek to lead us and their agendas.
I don't like LaRouche, I think he is despicable and I think his organization operates as a cult. A cult, in and of itself, is not illegal either. Its acts may be illegal, and that is what should be prosecuted, assuming a complaint is filed that can be investigated and acted upon.
If the Democrats think LaRouche is a problem they have multiple ways to deal with the man and his group. Ignoring him is one way. Putting up fairly high challenges to his becoming a party endorsed candidate is another. Whether or not they expend the time and energy depends on just how big a problem he is for the party.
I am sure we'd be hearing about it if the Dem leadership was putting on the squeeze. Since we aren't, I am going to assume the Dems have bigger fish to fry. And frankly they do. Read the papers and the analysts -- the Dems have far bigger things to worry about than some kook. If LaRouche has broken the law (again) don't count on the Dems to bring the charges. It will either be another attorney general responding to constituent complaints or as the outcome of some investigation. The Dems won't be anywhere in sight.
10-06-2006, 12:04 AM
One of the functions of good government is to protect its citizens, at times, from themselves: thus the countless programs for people who have fallen through one or another rend in the social fabric. LaRouche & Cie will of course have nothing ever near the power of even a small-town selectman. (That is not the issue. To even brook that possibility only flatters them.) But their power over individual lives has been shown to be massively harmful. Those of you civil libertarians who rush to the defense of free speech at any cost are those who mistakenly view LaRouche as a purveyor of ideas primarily, who in service of that program runs a little con-man and cult show on the side. As everyone such as myself who has been harmed by this group knows, it is all about crushing those who come within its orbit into serving the Chairman's every whim. The "ideas" are just smoke and mirrors to deceive potential recruits. If it were all about one's right to pontificate about the LaRouche-Riemann method of flatulence (as opposed to that of the evil Euler and Cauchy), I of course would say knock yourselves out. But there is a serious cult problem in this nation, and it is the government's job to extirpate each and every one of them - by any means necessary. And let no one come back with that slippery slope argument: although there may be some dubious cases such as a particularly rigorous religious outfit, it does not take a rocket scientist to know with certitude which are the destructive cults. LaRouchism is one, and L-Ron-Hubbardism is another.
10-06-2006, 09:31 AM
There is a lot of destructive stuff out there, and people avail themselves of destructive stuff all the time. Prohibition proved pointless, and cigarettes are legal. AA is in business and oncologists treat lung cancer.
Cults are all around us, and on their face are probably destructive because ALL cults, not just LaRouche and L. Ron Hubbard, are focused on the "one" who is indispensable and necessary to the survival of the membership if not the wider community. Visit the LJ community Dark Christianity (http://community.livejournal.com/dark_christian/) for a perspective on what could be called Christian cults. There is plenty going on that meets the definition of cultish, and is destructive, in some Christian congregations, but we don't ban them or declare them illegal.
I am sorry Sancho, but as much as I sympathize with those who were harmed by LaRouche and his minions, it isn't enough to say we can, and should, ban this or that group because they are harming people. It is indeed a slippery slope. Who decides what harm has been done? How is it defined and whose definition prevails? It's kind of like asking what is porn or what is torture? Is it a case of you'll know it when you see it?
Unless and until the survivors of the LaRouche organizations come together and put forth a case that can be prosecuted in court, or we get a serious break in the Jeremiah Duggan case, he will continue to pull in the unknowing and vulnerable. It is up to those of us here, and elsewhere, to pull back the curtain and let the clear light of day into that shadow world. Hopefully it will reveal the truth and further diminish LaRouche's influence.
10-06-2006, 10:09 AM
i am sorry to see, sancho, that while you have freed your body from the larouche organization, you have failed to liberate your mind...the calling for restrictions of freedom of speech, the advocation of the banning of a political organization, the notion that government needs to protect its citizens from themselves, all of this would not be out of place in a larouche pamphlet...and to denigrate people who support unconditionally the right to freedom of speech, as somehow being misinformed or misguided vis a vis larouche completely misses the point...it has nothing to do with larouche - freedom of speech is one of the basic rights upon which the united states was founded...people who advocate
fascism in support of "freedom", if sincere, suffer from a myopia that could hardly be corrected in a single post, or even dozens of them...we are only another terrorist attack away from all the sanchos in the united states government clamping down on everyone who disagrees with them, with a brainwashed population cheering as their rights are taken away, for " their own good "...
10-06-2006, 10:32 AM
The point is that the LaRouche organization is manifestly not a political organization: it is a cult of personality around a figure who presents himself as having all the answers to all of life's questions, including those of a political nature. What cults like this one do is create islands of despotism within a culture of liberty. LaRouche has no influence outside of those mostly poor souls who for one reason or another have hitched their wagon to his star (as I did.) How can a government that putatively has its citizens' best interests at heart permit people to be victimized by such groups? Should we stand aside and allow the homeless to perish of tuberculosis if they should elect not to go to hospital? I sympathize with the civil libertarian point of view expressed, and am ordinarily inclined that way myself given my experience in the Labor Committees. But at some point we have to be adults and punish the wicked children among us who bully the emotionally fragile or otherwise needy who get sucked into these mad vortices of emotional if not physical abuse. But, again, your points are well taken. I choose however to support sterner measures when dealing with such creatures.
10-07-2006, 09:48 PM
Well -- seems an old 2005 article I wrote about Jeremiah Duggan and Larouche has come to the attention of Jeremiah's mother. She wrote to me this evening and wasn't happy because she thought I was out spreading disinformation about her son. I tried to reassure her that I wasn't.
It's been over 3 years and no answers about her son's death. No one has come forward and shared what they know. That's almost unheard of as usually no more than 2 people can keep a secret. I have to wonder who, if anyone, in that nest has felt any qualms at all about Jeremiah's death. They sure conceal it well if they do.
10-09-2006, 05:34 PM
A conspiracy of silence, in other words.
Do you think the LaRouchies "pushed" this Duggan kid too far somehow? If so, how?
10-09-2006, 07:35 PM
The available information (see Justice for Jeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com) as well as The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)) suggests the young man was running in fear of his life. One article I saw, which interviewed at least one of the motorists who was there, indicated that Jeremiah may have tried to signal the drivers that he needed help. That he didn't run into the cars like some suicide but got caught up in the traffic. The thing is, the Schiller Institute reps were holding his passport, and they immediately tried to portray him as having mental or emotional problems. The Children of Satan III pamphlet clearly tried to exploit his death and the ongoing uproar as the tool of Cheney et al to stymie Larouche's presidential bid.
The bottom line is that the people who were there, and who have the knowledge, have never come forward to tell what they know, and the German police did not conduct an investigation because they assumed that Jeremiah committed suicide. The whole thing was botched. So we don't have all the facts, and the facts we have don't add up to the outcome the Institute and its minions are trying to sell.
10-09-2006, 07:51 PM
I need to pay more attention to The Guardian. Here is a link http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=jeremiah%20duggan to an article describing a review of photos from the scene of Jeremiah's death. Article is dated 9/17/06. The investigator clearly believes it wasn't a suicide. I do remember the article that had the interview from the driver of one of the cars, though I don't know if I will ever find it and I think it was in the German press. If Jeremiah was indeed killed elsewhere, suspicion will fall on the Institute, and Herr Helga will have a difficult time explaining that away.
Factnet is not processing links correctly, so if you go to The Guardian and do a search on Jeremiah Duggan, this article should be the first of 9.
10-09-2006, 07:58 PM
From the Timing is Everything and Ain't Factnet Wonderful perspective:
I understand there was an encounter today at a card table shrine in California, wherein the LYM acolyte, reasonably well dressed, responded to a repeated query of "why are you doing this" with "who's asking?" When the question shifted to what research had she done on her own regarding what she was being told, the acolyte asked where would that research be. "the internet" she was told. "FactNet?" she asked.
Ain't life grand.
10-10-2006, 05:17 AM
Once one is in the fishbowl - and one views everything outside the fishbowl as suspect if not evil - it is very difficult to see even the need of escape. Every trial, every late rent payment, every shock-and-awe session to get one to "unblock" is interpreted as one more cross to bear in helping to redeem humanity as a martyr for Lyn. Perhaps the only way to get the fish to get a different angle on their existence is to point out the insanity of their daily manner of living, to ask how selling subscriptions saves humanity, to ask why the cult leader lives in luxury and travels regularly abroad when one has forsaken one's own education and family for $100 per grueling 6-7-day week. Things of that nature. It is futile to "argue" the specific "ideas" or policy proposals of the cult since (a) they are just the window dressing which hooked the cultist but do not keep him or her in the cult (b) many of their ostensible policies (though not scholarship) are at least rational if not entirely good. I was and they are sick people: the root of the problem is personal dysfunction at all levels. But again, for me, only the pain drove me out. Unfortunately, until these people can acknowledge their pain in this way of life, there is little hope of setting them free.
I welcome queries from present Labor Committee members and supporters. I won't condemn you, but just share my experience so that you can make a more informed decision as to whether to stay. I have been where you are and know your sincerity and hard work are unmatched anywhere. It may be time however to put those virtues to work in the real world, helping real people by providing real solutions. I am not any kind of therapist or cult expert: just a former member who has been liberated "in freier Luft den Atem leicht zu heben" ("Prisoners' Chorus", <u>Fidelio</u>.)
10-10-2006, 03:20 PM
Do the LaRouchies hate Hallowe'en? That's very Pagan and quasi-death-worshipping and all. Hallowe'en, Horror movies, and Black Sabbath are all peas in the same pod, no?
10-11-2006, 03:48 PM
There are a lot of things to talk about here and a few emails to show here as well. But first, I want to mention something here for people who are not in the LYM or have never had experience inside a cult.
When you get older you figure out a lot of things and one of them is that the saying of youth being wasted on the young is often true.
The amount of cruelty and abominable behaviour conducted against members and supports by the org makes your stomach churn more after you leave than when you were in. At least that is the case with myself. I can't speak for former members here, but, everyone looks back at how events transpired and can easilly become angrier when you see how the whole circus was run and connect the many experiences you have together.
Back then we were running like hamsters on a wheel in endless 24/7 mobes. You saw people come and go and never really knew what happened to them. Years later I can converse with former members who often have no idea of the extent of the abuse which took place and the cold hearted cruelty inflicted on people via the control of every aspect of their lives.
The org was banned in West Germany as a sect many years ago. We had something called the ELP, European Labor Party, which had similar front groups like we had in the US. On the justiuceforjeremiah web site you can read about a German female member who left and wrote a book about how destructive the cult is.
After the German gov banned us, we quickly formed the Bueso as another reincarnation of the cult, with a lot fewer mebers. I had left before this all happened and never knew about this or the book by the ex member until the internet developed.
The problem as Kheris can point out is how to balance the obvious destruction and harm with the rights of free speech. This is one reason I am not too thrilled with making religious groups exemt from civil laws. There is one thing noble about volunteer work and donation of time and money to charitable efforts. It is another thing to see the exploitation of people and the criminal actions occuring undere this umbrella.
There are many sects and cults as well as religious outfits which have done a lot of damage. It was because of the compaints and investigations of press,investigators and concerned people that this stuff becomes news and justice is attempted.
If you are in the LYM today, you will be told the exact same thing we were told decades ago. "Larouche is so dangerous to the oligarchs that they do not put him on the air and refuse to cover us, except with slanders"
If you examine this after you leave , the reality is quite different. Cults do not wnat publicity. The more you do not know about them and their tactics, the better it is for the few who run the show.
10-11-2006, 04:03 PM
Recall that one of our main jobs in the 1980 New Hampshire campaign was to keep Larouche OFF of interviews and doing media. The more he spoke, the crazier he became and the more we all knew that we were doomed. We then created phony assasination plots and stories to try to keep him away from a microphone.
The members were told that all coverage of us is slander and a plot to kill Lyn by the drug lobby, the British , the Knights of Malta or what ever the hell we could pull out of the magic conspiracy 8 ball.
We were raking in millions on scams and promissory notes with this funny understanding among ourselves that somebody has to pay this money back. In a cult situation you will find the same dynamics as in being hoodwinked by fortune tellers or investment fraud. No one wants to admit that they were taken by an obvious faker. this was exactly the case with us as anyone who took us seriously and gave tons of money found that they were laughed out of thier work place or home when they showed up with larouche lit.
Several members who knew the finances quietly left to avoid being ensnared in an investigation by police. A few ended up on a witness stand.
Being very clever, we would call up the same people who started to complain about this oddity and turn it around. We would tell the person that this is proof of how dangerous Larouche is and how much power the ADL or the Drug Lobby has in controlling the media by spreading slanders against larouche. This is how we raised millions for TV spots.
In the 1980s the key word was "Queen of England". That was enough to get you laughed out of any meeting. The coverage always began with "Lyndon Larouche, who believes that the Queen of England is the world's biggest drug pusher". Lyn would say that he never said that, even though everything we published was saying that. At a national conference Lyn would attack the press for quoting him , deny he saud it and then tell several hundred in the Reston Va ballroom that the Queen indeed is a drug pusher!
It was not until several reporters around the country began to find out about our loan and credit card swindles that police began to look into this. Several people whom we took to the cleaners sued us, very few went to the police.
This is important because white collar crime uses this to its advantage. When a supporter would go the the police, they were told that this is a civil and not criminal matter and to persue legal claims. Every crooked contractor and penny tock operator uses this to shield themsleves. It is not until you can see a deliberate pattern of systemic fraud that you will see the police involved.
The last live appearance by Lyn on TV was the Mort Downey show where he self destructed for the nation. Larouche gets a lot of requests for interviews from reporters who are following cults and the Jeremiah Duggan case around the globe. He does not do them and you wil only see Lyn on fellow kooky media. You will also find Lyn on Muslim media about the Jewish Lobby amd such, but that is another story.
10-12-2006, 01:03 PM
I have this on the best authority.
Lyndon believes he is a telepath. He thinks because he is clairvoyant, he is invincible and immortal.
Pity he isn't empathic.
10-12-2006, 01:18 PM
You mean claret-voyant?
10-12-2006, 06:45 PM
ikkni06 asks about what Larouche and the cult think of Halloween.
Very good question and and one which has a few answers depending on the era we are examining.
First, if you have quotas to hit, holidays get in your way. In our early Marxist days of creating a Socialist world, we looked forward to sending out the members to Churches for leafletting on holidays.
We used to do what were called walking tours. That meant that after you manned a card table shrine all day, you ate a fast food burger and drove to a nice neighborhood and went door to door. Like trick or treaters, we either put on our Fusion Energy Foundation masks for high tech engineer type neighborhoods or a clean face mask as the Anti Drug Coalition for high children/family areas.
We had some funny times when the local NC's, who were out of touch with reality, sent us door to door for the US Labor Party on Halloween night. They yelled at the squads for not being potent and forcefull enough with the US Labor Party program to stop the collapse of the economy.
THE REAL REASON LAROUCHE AND THE DEADENDERS HATE HALLOWEEN IS THIS.
We are now fast approaching the 20th year anniversary of a world historical event in Westchester county. If you have kept track of LC history, many people began to leave the org after the 1980 New Hampshire fiasco. The Detroit operations created a Potempkin village LC for Lyn and security and left with a 135 or so members.
Whole sections of National Office sectors left from Asia, Legal, Finance, FEF, Operations and LaLC along with many Jewish members. In addition, we had people who worked in the entities at Computron, World Com and PMR who also fled.
Now this is something very few people heard about when it happened and only learned about during the trials.
It seemed that a Halloween party took place with quite a few of the recently departed. In a wild gestation of freedom from Bizarro world, a celebration was put together in a members recently purchased home. The theme was the Labor Committee and what you remember the most.
Well, I finally found out about the party years after it took place. We were told that it was some diabolical, Satanic meeting of pure evil working with oligarchs and the drug lobby to stop Larouche and thus deliver humanity to the dark side.
In reality, it was someone's idea of a joke Halloween get together since no one could agree on costumes or how to geta few friends together since many people were going their seperate ways.
Some people came as the usual Draculas and witches, while several ex members really showed their creativity in design. One person came as larouche, complete with a prison uniform, ball and chain and pipe. another couple came dressed as CREDIT CARDS. I think one was a Visa and the spouse was a Mastercard.
Other people came dressed as Knights of Malta, the Queen of England, a Rockefeller ,a bottle of Rheingau wine and other assorted delusions from Lyn's imagination.
The low point was a couple who may have won the contest. The guy let his stubble grow, put on a dress with a Saks 5th avenue tag, an SS armband , chugged several beers, let out a blast to rival Helga's legendary beer farts and declared himself as Helga! His wife dressed up in a running track outfit, put shadow on her face, smoked a cigar, flexed her biceps and declared herself as Helga's bodyguard.
(Message edited by xlcr4life on October 12, 2006)
(Message edited by xlcr4life on October 12, 2006)
10-12-2006, 06:51 PM
Here is an exerpt which the org prints about that evening.
"An unbiased court could only dismiss these witnesses' testimony as worthless. The final blow to their credibility was delivered when witnesses Steve Bardwell and Charles Tate were forced to confirm descriptions of a Halloween Party held on October 31, 1986, in which former NCLC members celebrated the huge FBI raid, earlier that month, on the offices of LaRouche-associated organizations. Bardwell had himself written a five-page invitation to that party, announcing the performance of a play entitled "Pin the Rap on LaRouche." The guests at the party came in costume; Charles T a te, who had dressed himself up as a credit card, acted out an imaginary testimony against LaRouche. Kostas Kalimtgis, a former leading associate of LaRouche presently suspected of having been a long-time KGB plant, gave a major speach at the Halloween party calling upon those present to do everything possible "to put LaRouche behind bars."
You knew things were not going well when any release of this created instant laughter among members. It was then decided to never talk about this with members and instead make it into some international meeting of the KGB and the ADL against Larouche
Later, after we began to get press coverage of how crazy larouche was, we had parodies done on Saturday Night Live of Lyn. This evolved into a few lines on the TV Show "The Simpsons".
These episodes were part of the yearly "Tree Top of Terror" Halloween special which still appears in reruns.
Here are two lines from two shows.
to a group of senior citizens working for him
Mr. Burns: I'll take you to the biggest duck-filled pond you ever saw.
Grampa: Hot Diggity. That's how they got me to vote for Lyndon LaRouche.
And when the space aliens captured Homer one Halloween:
Homer: Oh, no. Aliens, bio-duplication, nude conspiracies. Oh, my God. Lyndon LaRouche was right!
HAPPY 20TH ANNIVERSARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10-13-2006, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the dirt. And have a happy Hallowe'en everybody!
10-13-2006, 07:03 PM
Here's a quote for you. Sound familiar? I'll let you guess who said it (no Google peeking).
"...this upward urge, this divine spark, has brought us to a new threshold. A threshold as important as that which separated the non-living matter of three billion years ago from the living matter into which it evolved. Today's threshold is a threshold in self-consciousness. We stand now on the verge of a full understanding of the fact that we are a manifestation of the Creator, that we are the means and the substance by which the Creator, by which the whole of which we are a part, can continue its self-evolution. When we understand this, when we heed the divine spark within us, then we can once again ascend the upward path that has led us from sub-man to man and can lead us now from man to super-man and beyond. But we cannot do this, we cannot find the path, without this consciousness, without this understanding that the responsibility is ours, that we are not the playthings of God but are ourselves a manifestation of God and can become, must become, now a conscious manifestation."
10-13-2006, 07:10 PM
Lastly, on this Friday the Thirteenth, I present a certain writer's posthumuous, premptive riposte to any disparagement of the spirit of Hallowe'en. See if you can guess this one, too.
"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. These facts few psychologists will dispute, and their admitted truth must establish for all time the genuineness and dignity of the weirdly horrible tale as a literary form. Against it are discharged all the shafts of a materialistic sophistication which clings to frequently felt emotions and external events, and of a naďvely insipid idealism which deprecates the ćsthetic motive and calls for a didactic literature to "uplift" the reader toward a suitable degree of smirking optimism. But in spite of all this opposition the weird tale has survived, developed, and attained remarkable heights of perfection; founded as it is on a profound and elementary principle whose appeal, if not always universal, must necessarily be poignant and permanent to minds of the requisite sensitiveness."
10-14-2006, 06:24 AM
ikknio6, it looks like you have a lot to add to the party here. I will admit, that upon first glance of the quote about the divine spark I immidiately thought of larouche. The reason is because in so many writings of his and conferences, this theme permeates the introduction. It usually is given with a passion which makes the members oooh and aahhh.
I cna probably go back to the "Fusion" campaigner in 1975 or so where the beginning of this thought was heard by myself. Fusion Power was not presented as just a neat technology to create electricity, but, as the harking of a new era where man will beocome God Like in transforming the biosphere. If you were able to read our publications for many years after that, the quote you provide is a common sermon of Lyn, right up to recent LYM cadre schools.
I did google this to later see if I was correct, and to my surprise the Church of Cosmeotheism, founded by William Pierce showed up!
You can read about Pierce here for an overview:
http://188.8.131.52/search?q=cache:5QxDEmt8luYJ:www.diacritica.com/sobaka/dossier/pierce.html+dr+william+pierce&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk& cd=1 (http://184.108.40.206/search?q=cache:5QxDEmt8luYJ:www.diacritica.com/sobaka/dossier/pierce.html+dr+william+pierce&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk& cd=1)
There is a recently published book called:
On the Edge: Political Cults Right and Left
Dennis Tourish and Tim Wohlforth
Armonk, NY: M.E. Sharpe, 2000. ISBN: 0-7656-0639-9 (cloth). $34.95
In an exerpt from this book one can find this:
First, Tourish and Wohlforth address right-wing groups and their call for white supremacy. The authors explain the foundations of Christian Identity philosophy within the framework of the literature on the psychology of prejudice and hate. Groups such as Aryan Nations, Posse Comitatus, and the Ku Klux Klan are put in their historical context. Similarly, significant connections are made to such figures as survivalist Randy Weaver (Ruby Ridge) and William Pierce, author of The Turner Diaries, a book that was influential in the development of Timothy McVeigh's ideological belief system of violence and hate. An interesting addition to this section is the chapter on Lyndon LaRouche, who, in his own political evolution, traveled from extreme left to extreme right. LaRouche's activities go back to 1947, from Trotskyism, through the radical Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) in the '60s, to his own National Caucus of Labor Committees (NCLC), which gradually transitioned further and further to the right. Discussed are LaRouche's links to fascist and neo-Nazi groups and activities, including his overt anti-Semitism and penchant for outrageous conspiracy theories. Many readers may not realize the extent of LaRouche's involvement in our country's political processes. For example, members of his organization have won primary slots in various state-level elections and have launched state ballot initiatives; and LaRouche regularly runs for President and proposed himself as economic advisor to President Clinton. These depictions of some of the white-supremacist groups and the LaRouche variation of fascism provide ample evidence of our need to take these organizations seriously and to encourage further study of them."
10-14-2006, 06:38 AM
This all makes me scratch my head because there is a whole other universe of Lyn,the org and far crazy anti semitic outfits, Klansmen, Militias and other cult leaders where everyone knows someone. Usually, this stuff is kept quite quiet from the lowly cardtable shriners. The Lym were not even conceived or in the womb when Lyn met with Willis Carto and other similar strains of hate groups.
The LYM yutes were alive when Larouche and Helga addressed the Zayed Center in the MId East. If you keep the yutes running like hamsters 24/7, they will never ask what the Zayed Center represents.
One thing to keep in mind in ANYTHING Larouche writes. If you were to examine all of the arcane writings and plot them with the people he or securtiy met in secret, a lot of Lyn's writings are just primitive copy/paste. There have been a few people who have done this who were shocked at how much of this was rampant.
In the low class where I was, you would read opuses by Lyn about Ancient civilization and Vedic origins of mankind and figure that it was over your head. If you picked up some cheap White Power anti semitic lunacy from the National Alliance or such, it was old news.
Even the Rockefeller/Trilat/CFR tangents were lifted from some obscure NYC based writer for one of these groups.
Ikknio6, I once mentioned this a while ago. Reading about Pierce's Church reminded me of a National Office meeting in NYC around 1979 or 1980. NEC member Allen Salsibury came into the room after meeting Lyn about our finances and recruitment. One thing he said was that it would make sense for us to start our own religion for the tax benefits and getting people to join us. This was when Lyn was meeting with inner city ministers and Black Muslims in our anti drug (rasing money) work.
10-15-2006, 10:32 AM
Here's a whopper to amuse you on your Sunday, courtesy of the self-hating Jews, Messrs. Chaitkin & Steinberg:
"This Anglo-American "bankers CIA" apparatus had teamed up with corrupt Federal prosecutors to frame Lyndon LaRouche and a dozen of his close colleagues during the late 1980s, after an Oct. 6, 1986 attempted government-led "Waco-style" assassination of LaRouche was thwarted, in part, through the personal intervention of then-President Ronald Reagan, with whom LaRouche had worked closely on the Strategic Defense Initiative."
How delusional can one get?
10-15-2006, 12:08 PM
I came across this interesting account of someone's near death experience going to a LYM meeting somewhere in Seattle.
The Elusive Allure of Lyndon LaRouche
BY BETHANY JEAN CLEMENT
They're everywhere--at folding tables on Broadway Avenue, downtown, at Sea-Tac--screaming nonsense and accosting us with their impenetrable publications. After the election, presumably, they'll crawl back into whatever hole they came out of. But how did so many young people fall under the spell of Lyndon LaRouche--perennial candidate for U.S. president, convicted felon, notorious crackpot--in the first place? Why would they devote their lives to his clearly insane, pointless campaign? What the hell's wrong with these kids?
The only way to find out is to get on the wrong side of one of those folding tables. When I call the Seattle chapter of the LaRouche Youth Movement, the woman who answers seems shocked to hear from a potential volunteer. I assure her that I've checked out www.larouchein2004.net (http://www.larouchein2004.net), that the mainstream presidential candidates don't, like, really represent my viewpoint (true, though I am firmly in the lesser-of-two-evils camp), and that I, like, want to know more.
I am told that this is awesome. My courtship has begun; my new friend proceeds to call me approximately every other day to talk about Lyndon and invite me to various goings-on. Some things don't come up in our conversations: that LaRouche served five years of a 15-year sentence for conspiracy, mail fraud, and tax evasion in the late '80s; that he's been accused of anti-Semitism; that, at 82, he's practically dead; that he's variously described as a fascist demagogue, a cult leader, eccentric, a nutball. \\
Wanting to know more about LaRouche's young volunteers, I attend an evening "drama workshop" at a house rented for the Youth in Lake Forest Park. Driving deep into suburbia, I see two young men with that timeless hippie look--fuzzy hair and fuzzy sweaters, shapeless shoes--standing by a mailbox in the gloaming. They welcome me into a ranch-style house that, incongruously, seems to have had the entirety of its contents transplanted directly from the U-District--the convivial squalor, the icky mismatched couches, the mountain bikes resting against walls, the several dozen kids hanging out. LaRouche rails in his literature against the "inhuman, madly rutting 'rock-drug-sex youth-counterculture' of the middle through late 1960s," but this looks like a setting for exactly that.
Milling around ensues. I begin talking to a female Youth who identifies me as new; she relates that she was in college in the Southwest when one of her friends was "recruited." She then drove to Seattle and had four days to decide whether to drop out of school and work full-time for the cause, which remunerates in the form of food, housing in the Lake Forest Park digs, and "sometimes some money for personal stuff."
"I realized that everything they teach you in school is total brainwashing," she says.
10-15-2006, 03:48 PM
I have a huge backlog of articles and posts about the LYM being a cult from around the country. What is markedly different now from when I was in is the overt transformation into a hardcore cult of personality in recruiting.
The program is is eerily similar to how traditonal cults like the Krishnas and the Moonies operate on campuses. The yutes are there for the pickens. In so many of the articles you find now there is a real interesting observation by most writers about how the yutes who they run into all have had some baggage either in their home, personal or campus life they wish to escape from.
I will be the first to admit that I fit that category a few decades ago. You see, in a complex world one has complex relations with close things like families, friends and increasingly outward things like school and work.
All most people wish to get as they grow up is some control over this, so you put up with good and the bad as you go along. Larouche always told us that the time to strike is when you see an 18 to 25 year old because they have not yet formed an overview of the world in his opinion.
Really , most 18 to 25 year olds have so much to learn about life that for a certain portion of people who wish to do food, the message makes more sense than most of their problems.
We used to do one on one recruiting and built up contacts to take them to a National Conference once a year. The new format seems to be to round up the locals and wisk them to multi day retreats running around the clock. You can read many short passages by former Moonies and Krishna, as well as other sects and see how this breaks you down.
Remember, the goal is not to really accomplish something of substance. there are thousands of orgs, charities and political clubs that you can do that in. The goal is to get the handfull of pseople who do not look at this lunacy and run away either laughing or screaming.
If you come away with a few hard core people alonmg the way, than you have a real cheap way of raising money, distributing leafletts and creating the illusion of actual work being done.
The yutes are often described as being happy in their role as they now have a purpose in their mind. Thye can proudly stand shouler to shoulder with what ever historical figure of the hundreds Lyn can throw around without having to actually take a test, get a degree or really do something constructive.
Exactly like Larouche.
Now also understand that there are two things going on, a need for bodies and a need for money. The yutes are kept at bare subsistance while the other people who are older and with jobs or such are hit for money endlessly with the same 40 year end of the world/humanity hysteria which can be averted by giving money.
We will get to that next.
10-15-2006, 04:19 PM
I leave my email address here never knowing what shows up in the inbox. I got the idea after going on some sites like epinions when I wanted to buy a kitchen appliance. I figure that the people who actually spent money and used a product would know more than what I read in an ad or manufacturers brochure.
After fiding this site by accident, I figured this. Why not carry this over to the experience of being in a Bizarro World of Larouche? I have nothing to sell or to offer except my experiences.
Emails have come from across the globe and often ask for more info and usually confirm their suspician than something is wacky.
This email came from a person in the US.
"I came across your postings on the FACTNet message board, and have come to the realization that LaRouche and his followers are certifiable. Only after they convinced me over the last several months to give them a good chunk of money for the LPAC, and now they want
>double that for support for the LYM! How do I get rid of these people?"
We have had that question asked here before, usually about a son or daughter who got bamboozled by the cult.
Here is my answer and anyone else can pine in with their thinking or expereince as well.
You will be called for ever until you you make it
clear that you do not wish to talk to them, consider their calls harrassment and threaten to contact either the phone company or police to end this if you are phoned endlessly.
Unlike the years when I was in, there are laws on the books against stalking and harrassment which protect you.
We were so relentlees about calling that I would see people change their phone numbers. Even then we would have members drop off packages of material at people's houses. A lot of times we tried to contat the person when we knew a spouse would not be there. With the elderly we were always on the lookout for their kids who would notice either the mailings of lit and the increased credit card charges or the bank account being drawn down. We also had to surrepticiously get stocks and bonds from their safe deposit box or have assets transferred to brokers we used to liquidate them.
We never gave up until a lawyer or police agency called.
The reason for this is based on what I noticed about the org when I was in. Even if you tell them to go F themselves, they will file your contact card with a note about your political objections. Since you gave money and appear to have money, that is all that counts.
What may happen is that you will get called by another person who will see what type of angle can be used to interest you. You see, if you object to an issue, we have so many issues that we can relentlessly recontact you over and over. It does not have to work all of the time , just enough to keep some money flowing in.
We used the kids complaining about grandma losing her money by calling them selfish, controlling and afraid of you showing your concern for the world.
10-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Consider this. Try engage them in questioning their history and why they are a cult over and over. When we had people who began to make fun of us as cultists or bring up our criminal actions or anti semitism, we figured it was the beginning of the end. What happens is that a team leader will yell at the caller for
wasting his or her time talking to you since they are not getting your money.
In the LYM club house an NC or steering committe member will be yelling non stop at the fundraisers for not hittiing quota. Keep a fundraiser on the phone for hours without giving a dime will make his or her life pure hell when they have nothing to add to the daily tote board.
Another way to end this is to also endlessly question the person calling you. In other
words, YOU do the questioning about how THEY are
wasting their time, life and energy with a cult of swindlers and charlatans while other people actually accomplish good. Be near a computer and ask them over and over why they left school to work with a crank who chews up people and spits them out.
You start messsing around with the callers head and they will not wish to call you. They will write on the contact card that you are an agent, or an intelligience operative who is trying to infiltrate and disrupt the org.
Keep asking about Jeremiah Duggan and they will write an EIR article about you having Lynne Cheney and the Queen of England at your house for coffee to plot against Larouche.
That is why in the article posted above the person in the LYM club house was surprised that someone called.
As long as you know that your talking to a cult of personality and not something like the local blood bank drive, it comes pretty easy to end your excursion into the Larouche Bizarro world.
10-15-2006, 04:56 PM
<font color="0077aa">In Canada it is legal to tape record phone calls if you are one of the parties to the call. Check out if this is so where you live, or where these cults conduct their "business". And don't believe the police on this one. Many police in Canada lie about that fact, others simply don't know the law and attempt to shove their false and stupid assumtions "down your throat." Myself and others have had some pretty heated arguments over recording telephone calls and your own court proceedings even to the point of threatened arrest over the latter. But these fascist Canadian jerks are wong, wrong, wrong and are proven so time and time again if victims have the guts and willing to challenge these bullies. And the recorded telephone calls can and are used as evidence in court.
I still find it hard to fathom that victims come on this website with these horrable compliants wondering what to do when in fact the creator of this site successfully sued the C of S for 8.7 million dollars. Take a cue, then take action!!!
dave crimebustersnow.com international non profit foundation 905-963-3389 24/7. We return calls in North America and 22 countries world wide.</font>
10-16-2006, 02:38 PM
Ok everyone, I was completely wrong about Larouche. This guy actually knows what he's talking about. It seems like you guys don't even try to comprehend what he's saying. And even if you guys disagree with him, what are u doing to solve the worlds problems. It is our Human Moral Right to help Humanity. Anyone who uses excused to sit back all day has something wrong with them.
10-16-2006, 03:15 PM
Are you joking?
10-16-2006, 03:46 PM
It appears you can't think or spell - but can you read? This is not about so-called "ideas" (which word the LaRouchites make hateful to me): LaRouche is a sick, self-miseducated, mad egoist who runs a cult of people so that they can (a) worship him and (b) keep him up to his eyeballs in booze. Is that clear enough for you? If not, let us know how basic we must get to communicate successfully with you. Use the above citation from LaRouche's website wherein it is alleged that Ronald Reagan personally intervened to stop a government effort to 'get LaRouche' 'Waco-style' (EIR, 10/13/2006) as an IQ test: how likely do you think it is that Ronald Reagan was even marginally aware of LaRouche's existence, let alone that the two of them "worked closely" on SDI? Or that Ronnie picked up the phone to block this nefarious move? Does that square at all with your perception of reality?
10-17-2006, 12:02 AM
Did a SUV hit you head first or did something bad happen in your social life that made you come to this illrationale conclusion? LaRouche flip flops more than Bush himself, Lyn preachs about bring back FDR's economic policy. But in 1980, Lyn supported Ronald Reagan and it wasn't cause of SDI. Reagan's speech about SDI was first mentioned in 1983, three years difference. How can one support FDR but on the other hand support Reagan whose policies are contrary to FDR's? Just ask any conservative or a Reaganite, him or her will give their time to explain Reagan's policies. I don't want to repeat what the people on this board write. So do yourself a favor and read the posts.
James St. John Smythe
10-17-2006, 08:58 AM
Once one believes that "It is our Human Moral Right to help Humanity", it is time to join a cult. That's what cults do, they "help humanity" or better yet "save humanity". Positive change happens by real people taking real action in the real world. They take specific action to fight disease, poverty etc…. "Helping Humanity" is a cop out when there so much work to be done.
A few readers of this thread must wonder why, if it is so obvious that Larouche is a madman, did some of us stay in the cult for so long. It is precisely because we thought that we were saving humanity. Most importantly there was the perception that nobody else was doing even close to the same thing, therefore the only way humanity was to be saved was via the LC, warts and all. Ones reality check would be thrown off by the seeming honesty and humility of an elder member admitting that the LC and even Larouche were far from perfect, BUT there was no other group doing the same thing so we should roll up our sleeves, have fun, sing, and keep the cash flowing in.
06-07-2007, 06:46 PM
OK I have read plenty here this is a very elaborate devious trick indeed whether it is intentional or accidental. The trap is one of deduction. I will explain what too many from the LYM fall trap into as they walk into this domain of self perpetuated deceit!
Any and all X members are such because they really did not learn one key fundamental. How to come to understand something to be true! Do you take popular opinion? All those opinions CANT POSSIBLY BE WRONG, right? How about the accumulation of a whole bunch of facts that will get to the truth right? Because the simple tally of more facts will show an aggregation of evidence which always leads us in the right direction? Right?
Lets say we dont have telescopes and are living in the time of the ancients. We in an investigation step outside and collect an aggregation of facts (i.e. observations) of the sun in the sky, From When the sun rises to when it falls. We have compiled a twelve hour data sheet. Our senses demonstrate as well as the massive accumulation of facts that the sun rotates around the earth? are we right?
The problem is merely one that is an elementary one. Instead of taking someone's word Whether Larouche's or anyone else's one has to investigate where that person got their understanding and knowledge from, and whether that source had their investigation set in the real universe. Also what is the history of where that person understood what they did?
Since the real universe is invisible (Because ideas like gravity and Universal least action are every where in the universe) to the senses, how does one comprehend something invisible, use the invisible part of what makes you human. What is that? Read Plato! Lyndon H. Larouche calls such a process willfull and conscious "Acts of re-discovery"
One then has to realize the type of things the road down this particular path will ultimately take you, is into the realm of philosophy, and metaphysics. In that area one learns the 'parallel pathways' that certain key policies and ideas today run alongside. This is how we as TRUE understander s can place Larouche's reasoning and analytical skills at the forefront of science and political economy. Not because we are blind as soooo many have purportedly fallacious stated but because those who have done their own independent work come to understand, what many pass as 'code speak' whenever Larouche speaks!
Every single X member who has walked into this forum has fallen prey to ultimately that. They have read Lyndon Larouche's words but don't understand how he reached them. Therefore no matter what they themselves can profess as good intentions and good sounding policies, they fall short in then re-connecting that to the invisible in a transcendent way.
They then make further folly with trying to DEDUCTIVELY explain away their REASONING! The example of Kheris is far too appalling! She asserts what she asserts with relative ease of words. She truly has some issues to grapple with. Her claims along with all who negatively attack Larouche have no real intention to find out the truth or they would have asked Lyn themselves Here Is a Link! firstname.lastname@example.org
06-07-2007, 06:47 PM
The XLC er and other similar types are highly laughable! They tell you all they come from the inside and have an understanding of how certain aspects of the organization are run then drop a lot a bit of fiction, no that was too kind LIES, then you all eat it up! None of you have gone through a process of understanding to see how these Naysayers got to their conclusions!
I wont even address the Naysayers themselves the reason is simply one does not try to dialogue with Satan!
The only people that I am concerned about are those poor souls who really do think Larouche runs a cult and are being massively deceived. When it is them who unfortunately are deceived because they can so readily talk about something and they really don't KNOW (meaning comprehension of origin)about!
Lastly remember, If you are truly intent on understanding what Larouche is saying stop taking second hand opinions! Go back and read what he says and then see where he got that then see what you gain from where he got what he talks about! Read Kepler because he starts with the exploration in reality in a REAL way. Then move to read what Larouche says about Kepler.
It is a longer process but that is what it takes to begin to say 1 tenth of what has been posted here since 2003! Remember if opinions are •••••••• cause everyone's got one, then stop getting "sloppy" second hand •••••••• because thats pretty disgusting!
Ask Lyn about Anti semitism and bring him quotes, then post discussion here if your really honest
06-09-2007, 10:45 AM
Long ago, I wrote to "Lyn" and asked him why he uses the expression:
"the lower 80% of family income brackets"
instead of simply saying:
"the vast majority of Americans" or "the majority of Americans" or simply "most Americans".
His phrase is a mouthful, say I.
And I also asked him why he used the word "lower" when talking/writing about human beings.
No answer, no reply.
I think he looks down on people. I think he is a creep -- a genuine creep.
06-29-2007, 11:15 AM
"timefor_truth" is projecting, because he's in a cult and isn't ready to face facts. Nothing is more limiting than the worldview imposed on a person by a cult. It makes me sick to see the words of someone whith that perspective, defending the cult in a forum like this.
Do not stalk me in the hopes of re-converting me like Steve Rendon did. If you are Steve Rendon, I would hope you know better, but I know better than to assume. The harm and the aftereffects of cult abuse are real. And you don't have to have something wrong with you to begin with to have been hurt by the LaRouche campaign.
Here's a link.
Ask LaRouche about anti-Semitism and see how he lies. See how he avoids any tough questions about what everyone else knows. See how nothing he says adds up against anything anyone else says about him. See how biased his supporters are to the point of being hostile. See how much they have to hide. See how he doesn't give a damn about deaths that occur within his organization that collects so much per year in donations in the name of "saving humanity". See for yourself. But don't stay too long, or it will happen to you too.
You don't realize it, but the only sloppy secondhand <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> in here is you, and you are pretty disgusting, and everyone can see that.
I know that you went to some meeting and were moved by some lecture on some historical event, or some mathematic principle, or some thing, and they hypnotized you, and you cried because you realized how shallow you were, or something, but that's no reason to lose your mind. I know that if you had any friends before joining this organization, you probably don't anymore. It's never too late to get over yourself and get a life. You're not doing any good for anyone where you are. It's just an illusion.
I know you were really interested in something else before you became a "revolutionary". Maybe it was basketball, or architecture, or writing, or science. Maybe music. And you've "learned" how pointless that really was since you've been in the org. Huh? Am I right? Well, let me tell you something. You've been brainwashed, sir.
The LYM doesn't accept people who are really honest, because if you were honest with yourself, you would know you have been brainwashed, and you are in a cult, and you'd be scared out of your mind, and nothing your new friends would have to say about it would soothe you.
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